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What can happen. and i have also seen conventional wisdom particularly around primaries and caucuses and nominations collapse very quickly. it's because the voters refuse to go along with what the narrative is or even what the early state polling is. >> pretty much every recent election. look at the last one, you know, there was 40, 72 hours where it looked like bernie sanders is gonna be the democratic nominee, and joe biden's political career is over. you know, you look at our race in 2008. we weren't trailing by 40 or 50 points, but we were trailing in national polls by 30 points heading to...

>> simone, i'm so glad you're here. i really wanted you here, it was kind of stupid why when you hear. you've actually had experience on president campaigns, i want to get your read on this except this presidential campaign is gonna be nothing like anything you've ever worked on. but to the extent that donald trump is juggling to calendars, his election calendar, his primary counter, you know, he doesn't have much of a threat. that debate last week was the one opportunity for somebody to show themselves as a part of donald trump. that really didn't materialize. >> yeah, well, ali, january 15th...

>> simone, i'm so glad you, here i really wanted you hear, it was kind of stupid why when you hear. you've actually had experience on president campaigns, i want to get your read on this except this presidential campaign is gonna be nothing like anything you've ever worked on. to the extent that donald trump is juggling to calendars, his election calendar, his primary counter, you know, he doesn't have much of a threat. that debate last week was the one opportunity for somebody to show themselves as a part of donald trump. that really didn't materialize. >> yeah, well, ali, january 15th is whe...

What are your sort of big-picture thoughts that people should be focused on head ing into tonight? >> one thought that i had in looking at the setup without trump there is how much is trump going to be a factor. we have heard from the fox hosts in some pre-debate interviews and previews they have given they plan to bring donald trump up. they plan to make him a character on that debate stage. so i'm wondering how much time are these candidates, who many of whom are not all that interested in talking about donald trump, going to have to bes forred to spend on donald trump versus what they would...

"times"/sienna poll, the one about president biden and donald trump, which has them dead even. good news for biden in the poll. a year ago, there were questions among democrats, whether they wanted him to be the standard bearer. now, many are comfortable with him for re-election. there are warning signs, too. biden's support over trump among independents was 13% in 2020, and now it's down to 5%. obviously, battleground states will be what decides this. we haven't seen state polling yet. the michigans, wisconsins, pennsylvanias, georgias and alike. the case is all these indictments will hurt tr...