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Like he has that appetite. how do you convince him that even if he doesn't, that that may send the wrong message? >> i think, you know -- only thing i'm hoping is when he becomes -- right now, he's getting hit from all different sides. he hasn't taken the oath of office yet. so with that being said, he's put good people around him. they seem to contradict, he seems to listen to them. maybe together they can have a plan and formulate a pathway forward. i'm hopeful. as far as sanctions, we should have sanctions if you're going to hack, the united states of america, and that's illegal, and we kno...

Appear to be state-sponsored. >> some of the programs that we've seen, it is very evident that no commercial criminal sector or hacktivist would be ready to invest time and resources to such elaborate program. >> reporter: when former soviet republic georgia went to war with russia in 2008, the deadly battles were accompanied by hackers attacking georgian government websites. former georgian president accuses moscow of further meddling, during elections four years later. >> in 2012, they were heavily involved in georgian elections. they've done seeker attacks over different time periods. they ...

There's all kinds of mischief the u.s. can do. i ran across a lot of officials, to tell you the truth, who were very reluctant to go down that road, because you can get on a cyberescalation ladder, that you then can't get off. >> david, it's become almost gospel that russia, quote, hacked the election, but i think it's important to make distinctions about what that means, exactly. it's one thing to have hacked the e-mail of the dnc. clearly, that happened. but i think there a a lot of hillary clinton voters and polls actually show a majority of them believe that russia hacked into voter rolls,...

Department of homeland security, the assumption was that terrorism was something that had to be stopped at the borders and that it was something that we had to worry about because it might exfill trait, it might penetrate our borders. so we put all these port securit aviation security in one spot. so now we have to deal with the home born security problem. >> you described it to the equivalent of the ministry of interior position, one of the things that is unique about the transition that we're going through right now, in other countries it would be unheard of for a recently retired general to...

Now, i have to say that in 2001, 2002 when we created the department of homeland security, the assumption was that terrorism was something that had to be stopped at the borders and that it was something that we had to worry about because it might exfill trait, it might penetrate our borders. so we put all these port securit aviation security in one spot. so now we have to deal with the home born security problem. >> you described it to the equivalent of the ministry of interior position, one of the things that is unique about the transition that we're going through right now, in other countrie...