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Reports that a lawyer for michael cohen approached president trump's attorneys and, quote, raised the possibility of a pardon after cohen was raided by the fbi last year. joining me on the phone is michael rothfeld, an investigative reporter for the "wall street journal" which has broken a lot of news in the past months. explain who asked whom for what or who inquired to whom about what. >> these were in various meetings as you said after the fbi raided michael cohen. steven ryan had multiple conversations with at least five different lawyers connected to mr. trump. three of them are private l...

So that just wasn't what he was looking for. >> do you -- does your reporting find any sense of whether michael cohen gave up hopes for a pardon based on his own knowledge of donald trump and his interpretation of what he was hearing through his lawyers or whether michael cohen's lawyers in effect advised him to not basically play for the pardon? >> i don't know what the conversations between him and his lawyers were, but essentially he did -- that lawyer steven ryan after they reviewed the documents seized, cohen got a new lawyer, criminal lawyer to handle that case presumabl presumably, ryan...

And make decisions about whether he wanted to plead guilty. so that just wasn't what he was looking for. >> do you -- does your reporting find any sense of whether michael cohen gave up hopes for a pardon based on his own knowledge of donald trump and his interpretation of what he was hearing through his lawyers or whether michael cohen's lawyers in effect advised him to not basically play for the pardon? >> i don't know what the conversations between him and his lawyers were, but essentially he did -- that lawyer steven ryan after they reviewed the documents seized, cohen got a new lawyer, cr...

And then i think in july is when he went on george stephanopoulos and said i'm going to protect my family and i'm -- they are the ones i'm loyal to. by that time, the discussions were obviously over. and -- go ahead. >> but why wouldn't michael cohen's view of protecting his family include getting a pardon from the president? >> well, i mean, what we're reporting is that he was largely rebuffed or there wasn't immediate commitment made in the conversations between his lawyer steven ryan and the president's lawyers that, you know, as you noted, the most possibility was held up by rudy giuliani ...

President probably about mayish and then i think in july is when he went on george stephanopoulos and said i'm going to protect my family and i'm -- they are the ones i'm loyal to. by that time, the discussions were obviously over. and -- go ahead. >> but why wouldn't michael cohen's view of protecting his family include getting a pardon from the president? >> well, i mean, what we're reporting is that he was largely rebuffed or there wasn't immediate commitment made in the conversations between his lawyer steven ryan and the president's lawyers that, you know, as you noted, the most possibili...