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Catastrophic consequences. they didn't define it. but i think it's better to do that then to just stay quiet. that's a different change in their policy. second, stay the course. don't be blackmailed, don't be deterred. i would like to see them provide these other weapons. i think there are ways to agree with the ukrainian government to give them the weapons, but with guarantees that they won't use them against russian territory. i don't think they're going to do that, but i think on everything else, stay the course, keep providing the weapons, more sanctions, because what's happening now, thes...

And third, i would just underscore, we've been talking about and listening for years about how popular putin is, everybody loves putin. guess what?! they don't. and here we have some very strong evidence that there's real turmoil when this war was far away and not, you know, not on the -- not affecting families, it was one thing. now that it's affecting everybody, it's another thing. and i think we need to be encouraging that to whatever -- other ways we can. and to the point, are there historical examples? yes. vladimir putin loves to talk about russian history. he's always writing long essay...

Ukraine are pursuing to pump zelenskyy and ukraine with military might in order to really corner putin into diplomatic negotiations is right one. it's just that you don't want to get to a point where putin acts erratic, can't admit defeat at all -- i mean, he's not going to -- but where he ends up lashing out and doubling down with something super dangerous. >> so, we want to bring in ilya krichillsick who has created a website to help those affected by the actions of the russian government. you recently wrote a guest essay in "the new york times." i want to read from the piece that you wrote....

States. on the part about russia and what's going on inside, you see putin acting desperate. and the system in a lot of ways is crumbling and collapsing, but i don't want to sound overoptimistic just yet, because what ambassador mcfaul said was very important about putin threatening nuclear weapons. on one happened, you have putin coming out saying, i'm going to draft 300,000 people. you have 261,000 men who fled russia over the course of three days. you have protests, arrests from those protests, and you have men who have been conscripted who have gone and attacked in listening centers or mil...

Assessment of what you're seeing in russia right now with these thousands upon thousands of men fleeing the country, resisting putin's draft effort, heading to the borders, hopping on planes, whatever they can do to get out. what tells you about how things are going at home? >> sure. to start with the pipeline. this wouldn't be the first time we've heard europe say that putin is deliberating trying to siphon off this gas. and sabotage sounds very part of his playbook. one of the things that the europeans have been saying, he's using energy as a weapon to react to europe's support for ukraine. ...