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Have dropped. the average young barrister starting out in their career within the first three years, on average, thence before tax about £12,000. you cannot expect people who have spent years at university incurring student debt, who come into the profession with hopes of making their own mark and helping the public to get through all these cases, to stick around if you pay them a pittance. and so the criminal bar association has made it very clear to the governance, if you want to fix this, you need boots on the ground and you cannot do that unless you start treating the advocates in our cou...

They all have. i remember that pat buchanan was brought in for this very job after he had long since been in the nixon white house and -- >> he ran the white house, didn't he? >> he was the communications director. he did a fabulous job but his predecessor was having problems. they brought pat in. he knew exactly what to do. he knew reagan well. they got along. the fix worked. i think really what you are seeing here is president trump is trying to get this in his own fashion to work the way he wants it, and he probably won't stop tinkering with it until that's done. >> jen, you worked in the o...