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The outset, right, we wanted to cover people but also wanted to make sure that those who had coverage were not caring for those who used the er as a primary care facility. so what they're doing now is so out of whack, dare i say with basic conservatism, that i think it exposes their true hand. >> well, if republicans stopped trying to repeal obama care, their plan seems to be to try to make it not work. for people trying to get insurance, as the whole idea of getting insurance, what that means in terms of their principles is one thing. what that means in terms of strategy, if they're going to ...

What that means in terms of strategy, if they're going to tell people not to get insurance, where does that strategy end? where does it lead to, for republicans? >> well, i mean, people are signing up. kentucky is a great example of the success with regard to the medicaid expansion. but if the republican efforts like you just described are geared toward turning away the young invincibles, then what i think is really going on, they're trying to subvert this model of this. if people who are of means are buying in so we can provide that safety net for people who have not yet had insurance. so if ...