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Really talk about president trump in a kind of a full setting. i think that is what you're seeing replicated here. he perhaps has provided some information to jack smith, some reporting that he sat down for interviews there. but he clearly has not fully opened himself up to the government because with fani willis, he's clearly not cooperating. >> you know what's fascinating, right, those texts, we're talking about the text messages to like fox anchors, ginni thomas, clarence thomas' wife. that was a lot of the text messages we were reading on msnbc. those came from him. he was giving stuff up,...

Up that was obviously on its face ridiculous, i mean on its face ridiculous but also impugning the character of these election workers as you were alluding to before, which is what makes this particular case, i mean, all of trump's ostensible crimes, alleged crimes have been pretty vial. but this one is in a special category. and i think what -- to the question you were directly asking is that is kind of what has happened over the course of these last now 2 1/2 years. it's hard to remember the fact that we learned about this phone call on january 3rd of couple days before january 6th. the news...

Nature of all of the claims of election fraud in their state? >> and one thing those republicans might be able to speak to is in tent. did these republicans going in allied with the former president, did they know they were making stuff up, that they were telling lies or did they truly believe in their heart of hearts that they were doing the right thing. and especially when it comes to talking about the secret nature of some of the things. the fact that this meeting of alternate electors initially they were telling journalists they couldn't come in. they eventually opened it up. about you wha...

Don't believe you. they don't care. one thing that shocked me is not that they have cults and a lot of communities have kulls and it's that the right decided to build a cult around that guy. >> yeah. >> that's the guy they chose for their cult of personality. this guy who is more mob boss than political leader. we're talking about intimidating witnesses. i mean, trump has spent years basically blowing stuff up, to use your phrase, politically, judicially, financially and every aspect of his public and personal life. we know how he treats witnesses and we know from the mueller report, robert mu...

Saying that he is a rapist. again, this is -- any one of these things would have finished anybody's political career -- >> anybody. >> -- in either party, pre donald trump. it is truly frightening, what the republican party has become, because any time a politician was, you know -- it just -- >> listen, you wouldn't want someone like this working in your business. >> a judge says he is a rapist. what company would continue having this guy as their ceo. stealing nuclear secrets, they would be fired immediately, "leave the building. we'll box your stuff up, and leave the building." willie, again...