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>> secretary summers, thank you, appreciate you being here. >> thank you. let's see what you're saying via twitter, via facebook. this comes from the world of twitter i think. the more money you print, the less value it has, thus, inflation. yeah, i guess that's the way i was schooled. i'm just surprised and i asked secretary summers about this, he answered me, he said, we were frankly, too austere. but i remember on president obama's watch when simpson-bowles seems like a likelihood of passage. and of course, it went nowhere. but debt and deficit were part of the conversation. amidst this s...

Critical of president trump. page first spoke about her story this week with molly, who is joining me in studio. first, what brought this about? what brought you and lisa page together? >> i knew she had a story to tell about the human cost of trumpism, and i really wanted to hear it, because i felt like we see this so much, but we never really see what -- i wanted to know, what does it feel like to have the president of the united states use you to distract from other stuff. and so, i kept sort of texting her. and eventually, we got there, but it was -- she didn't want to be famous. >> yeah. ...

My view would be an admission of guilt, particularly on an obstruction charge, which is why they don't want obstruction as part of the interview. that part i believe. if there is an interview, they don't want any conversation about obstruction. i think it actually points to something that i think i will disagree with joyce on. it is one thing to say he's a subject, that donald trump is a subject of an investigation. subjects can become targets. the fact they have said he's a subject doesn't mean he can become a target, which is the very reason why they don't want him to testify. i think you're...

>> you know, and there is the truth of it, which is it would be extremely ill advised for the president to talk to mueller. anybody who was his attorney would say don't do it because it's not that it's a perjury trap. it's because he has a lot to be concerned about in terms of the questions he will get. he's already got inconsistent statements in the public per view. there is no way you can walk into an interview with a prosecutor with inconsistent statements, including some things that could easily and in my view would be an admission of guilt, particularly on an obstruction charge, which is ...

E-mail or a title three on a phone. those allow you to listen and view to con tent. a pen register is not warrant. it has a much lower standard. you don't need probable cause to get it. it is kind of a court order in a since a magistrate judge signs off. all you're getting is the number going in and out of phone, the time and duration of the calls. that's it. no content. >> jim, do you agree with that? >> absolutely. >> this is a low threshold and happens commonly. the person who is the subject doesn't know it's there? >> no. that would defeat the purpose. >> do you need to have a different or...