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Organisations are fighting on the side of ukrainian people against this war. and in belarus, we still continue in ourfight, mostly underground. it's like partisan war, but every day we create multiple points of pressure inside belarus to show lukashenko that he lost his legitimacy, he lost respect of belarusian people, and it also influences the situation. now he lost even support from the army, from soldiers, because belarusian people, belarusian soldiers, don't want to fight against ukraine. and it's the reason why our troops hadn't still crossed the border into ukraine. exactly, i was going...

I think that escalating these sanctions makes sense. i fear, anderson, that the only one that will mat ser the ultimate one, which we will have to think about, which is oil and gas. because all of the other things we're doing, even with these oligarchs, this is an indirect way of getting at some of the people who support putin. we have devoted a heart of the issue. the heart of the issue is the oil and gas revenues that keep the russian state afloat, that keep putin in power. and there are ways to do it. the united states today is the world's largest producer of oil and gas in the world. we co...

Unhinged, on the one hand. 0n the other hand, look, putin started to believe that he is a messiah, that he has a sacred mission. and this sacred mission is to restore the soviet union, to restore the russian empire, to get rid of west, to shift the geopolitical balance — that he has this sacred mission. and this is very, very dangerous. so now whether he's completely crazy or insane, not sure, but he's definitely unhinged, and, er... you say that, and ijust wonder if there's any self—reflection in you, reflection on maybe mistakes that ukraine made in the run—up to 2014 and the euromaida...

Independent television station was taken off the air, and the iconic echo of moscow, a radio station, but also a multi-media organization, also was shut down, one of the most important sources of independent news in russia. so both of those events happened today. that's not a consequence, right? putin's doing that because he's worried about news. and by the way, i was on both of those programs just in the last five days. they don't want people like me talking about this war in russian. they cut them off. at the same time, it's a demographic thing, right? the older you are, the more rural place...

Exactly, i was going to raise that very point. i mean, you say lukashenko is paying his price to putin for the support putin gives him, but lukashenko has not, as far as we understand it and despite some claims from ukraine, he has not actually sent belarusian troops across the border to fight inside ukraine. i wonder why you think he has not done that? er, maybe, you know, according to our information, belarusian troops had to enter ukrainian territory maybe a week ago, but it didn't happen because hesitation started among soldiers. we belarusians applied to soldiers, "where are you going? ar...