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This is anything goes. and i would ask both of you to the extent that you believe the anything goes philosophy is a necessary evil to do good. give me an example of another professional environment, whether it's an engineering environment, a medical ward, a surgery environment, civil engineering where aaffording a culture, while completely ignoring the root problem, where ignoring the problem you're trying to solve works. you see my point. >> it's a great point. you go through medical school and you may not be trying to annihilate someone, but those students are put through some -- >> i'm not ...