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Swing producers in opec, particularly saudi arabia are very, very skeptical of the biden administration's approach to the middle east. because the biden administration is intent on reviving the iran deal in the process rehabilitating iran's role in the global energy market allowing them to flood the market with crude. that would be bad for everybody. there is a lot of skepticism in terms of undermining a lot of the progress we have made in the last four years in the middle east that i think is part of the reason why a lot of key states in opec are saying well, i'm not interested in listening t...

Can anyone if make sense of this? let's see if larry kudlow can. he is, of course, host of "kudlow" on the fox business network -- [laughter] and he joins us now. all right, larry, what is this about? >> by the way, it's a real horse race on which is the dumbest policy. i mean -- [laughter] it's a stock looking for a bottom in the charts. but, look, there is, because of the biden policies you were discussing, there is now a shortage of fossil fuels. there's a shortage here in the u.s., but that shortage is global. and i'll give you probably the base case here. we were the swing producers, unde...

Can anyone if make sense of this? let's see if larry kudlow can. he is, of course, host of "kudlow" on the fox business network -- [laughter] and he joins us now. all right, larry, what is this about? >> by the way, it's a real horse race on which is the dumbest policy. i mean -- [laughter] it's a stock looking for a bottom in the charts. but, look, there is, because of the biden policies you were discussing, there is now a shortage of fossil fuels. there's a shortage here in the u.s., but that shortage is global. and i'll give you probably the base case here. we were the swing producers, unde...

Can anyone if make sense of this? let's see if larry kudlow can. he is, of course, host of "kudlow" on the fox business network -- [laughter] and he joins us now. all right, larry, what is this about? >> by the way, it's a real horse race on which is the dumbest policy. i mean -- [laughter] it's a stock looking for a bottom in the charts. but, look, there is, because of the biden policies you were discussing, there is now a shortage of fossil fuels. there's a shortage here in the u.s., but that shortage is global. and i'll give you probably the base case here. we were the swing producers, unde...

>> yeah. these days are the key moment because of what you said, the geopolitical realities or the internal realities, geopolitical reality for the 2030 plan, we should all want saudi arabia to succeed in liberalizing itself. >> there are national security concerns south of yemen, the aqap. this is not a one-way street. >> yes. >> as some have suggested. >> that's right. nobody should hope for the failure of this reform plan and as i said a moment ago, the saudis are the swing producers of oil and they're producing at the maximum level right now. so, yeah, its leverage works in both directions...