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I don't know if you've seen a president that has come and said i'm not going to negotiate. this is historic a president says i'm not going to sit at the table. as a guy that's the 10th of 11 kids, families work through problems by talking and communicating, so does the government. you're aware all we've asked for is the president and administration join us in obama care, american people in congress and that individuals and families be treated just like big business. that's what they are holding out for. >> congressman, you're asking him -- that's a nonnegotiable demand. why not sit down and ne...

Person. he's been defensive in the interviews i've seen which have been disappointing. having him on the show when he was here in person, having positive interviews with him. >> we've seen glenn before. he's an interesting character and prickly at times, but this was an interesting exchange where it was like what comes first, the chicken or the egg. this is about good journalism, creating the debate that we have, but there is a point you have to evolve the conversation into at what point is this truly dangerous. we know that -- again, i get back to my documentary, michael hayden was in it, for...

This is what government does in our lives and it's worth paying for. >> can i add the notion that if president obama just saturdays around the table a little more with john boehner and eric cantor and that would persuade them to drop their resistance to hikes is silly. they would never do it. i'm not sure what he gets by visiting their offices, by going to the hill, by having them over to the white house. i think this is obviously a political way of getting them to come to yes on this. and i do agree that there is a benefit to getting outside of the echo chamber of the bubble, seeing real peop...

For. >> can i add the notion that if president obama just saturdays around the table a little more with john boehner and eric cantor and that would persuade them to drop their resistance to hikes is silly. they would never do it. i'm not sure what he gets by visiting their offices, by going to the hill, by having them over to the white house. i think this is obviously a political way of getting them to come to yes on this. and i do agree that there is a benefit to getting outside of the echo chamber of the bubble, seeing real people, getting their stories out there and publicizing it. >> sam, ...

President obama just sat around the table a little more with john boehner and eric cantor and that would persuade them to drop their resistance to hikes is silly. they would never do it. i'm not sure what he gets by visiting their offices, by going to the hill, by having them over to the white house. i think this is obviously a political toy -- political way of getting them to come to yes on this. and i do agree that there is a benefit to getting outside of the echo chamber of the bubble, seeing real people, getting their stories out there and publicizing it. >> well, sam, i've got to ask you ...