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We haven't heard anything like that. and why? because what strategy is rudy giuliani following? the one that donald trump has made famous. say as many things as possible, see what stick, see what your base responds to, and go with those. 13 angry democrats, witch hunt, hoax. it's a strategy that works and one that we know donald trump likes. >> rick, i'm wondering if it's doing more harm than good for the president now. he's kind of like, he's become a funny meme on the internet. in the media, people are like, what's going on with him? >> i think rudy's job is not to be a lawyer. rudy's job is...

Like, new york post tabloid beeves, all these fights back and forth. and so he wants that stuff around him right now. now wanting that is his gut. but the legal side of that -- rudy is not helping him build a legal case here. eh he's build only a political case. >> publicity case. >> if the tides turn on that, we're going to end up with rudy looking to trump like a villain because trump turns on people very quickly if public opinion sways in a way he doesn't like. >> i don't know if you heard that. that was someone's cell phone talking. "i'm not sure if i understand." sometimes if i say seriou...