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Thanks both for being here. >> thank you. arthel: should house democrats go to court, joel, if president trump does not comply and submit his tax returns? >> oh, absolutely. and president trump has already said he would release his tax returns, and he hasn't done it. and the question has to be what is he hiding, and whey does he not want to do what other presidential candidates for the past four decades have done? and right now we're in the midst of two major controversies, especially since the michael cohen testimony. the first is was he inflating the value of his properties, is he a tax chea...

Congress will ultimately trump what they think their political benefit is and i think a lot of people watching that testimony yesterday were giving pause. this was on the front pages of over newspaper across the country. when i say that voters knew he was a tax cheat, a fraud, a liar, and he didn't get the majority of votes for president of the united states, so there is no political push back for majority of the american people to pursue these investigations. they don't want a liar, a cheat, or a fraud in the white house. >> this is why i think bill clinton survived and donald trump might sur...

Patient zero. he is the first example, really coming forward and saying that, saying, look, i am an example, probably closest to the son of being swayed, being conned. i am paying the ultimate price. most americans won't pay the price michael is, not going to prison. that is pretty much the theme of his opening statement and will come up a lot today. i also want to go back to heidi and let us not forget, this is the beginning of the end for donald trump, talking about inflating his wealth, he would say the value of his building was x for his taxes, a million dollars and in forbes, say it was $...

In terms of the business we are not interested in whether he's a tax cheat or not worth what he says he is or those issues. what we are interested in is does the president have business dealings with russia? such that it compromises the united states. and the perfect example is something we know about already. that is as a presidential candidate, while he was telling the country he had no business dealings with russia, he was pursuing the most lucrative deal i think of his life and seeking the kremlin's help to make it happen. that's a different form of collusion but it is equally compromising...

Experts. the main question being whether the president and his business are benefits from public office. joining me now is pulitzer prize winning investigative reporter and tax and accounting executive david cay johnston. author of "the making of donald trump." thank you so much for being with us. you have investigated and written extensively about president trump and his business dealings. why do you think he is fighting so hard to keep his returns private? >> because they're going to show that donald is a tax cheat. in 1984, donald had two trials. they were civil trials, but that were tax fr...