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Lot. even at the top of the show, the tax code is a product of congress. and there's lots of stuff in there that's horrible. there's lots of stuff in there, across the ideological spectrum, lefties, righty, libertarians, social conservatives, you can find stuff you hate in that freaking tax code if you look for it. but that is a separate issue. and there's going to be someone collecting taxes, we're going to pay taxes in some way, so why not make it easy and simple? >> if we're going to be collecting taxes, do we want the person collecting them being the preparer? no. there's free software and...

Those same people in congress who have written the tax code. the irs is just the ones enforcing it. >> well, that's absolutely right. and let's be very clear. let's call the republicans' bluff on this. you cited these efforts to reform the tax code and you cited 2003, 2005. let's be very clear. in 2003, in 2005, the republican controlled the majority in the house, in the senate. the longest period we have had in many decades of one party being in total control of the house, the senate, and the presidency for six years was during the republican rule from 2001 through 2006, and they didn't do it...

Essentially, as a regulator on your private wealth, and what you keep, and what you pay to the government. >> and that includes, by the way, the people -- and we know this is the case, who are sending their money offshore, who are sending it, and we finally did a good job trying to go after the swiss banks, to various caribbean nations. money that is earned in america and is sent overseas and sheltered from taxes, if we don't have irs agents, we can't find that. and the wage earner, the person who is working for whatever, making 40, 50, $60,000 a year, he or she has no chance to evade taxes, b...

Enforcing it. >> well, that's absolutely right. and let's be very clear. let's call the republicans' bluff on this. you cited these efforts to reform the tax code and you cited 2003, 2005. let's be very clear. in 2003, in 2005, the republican controlled the majority in the house, in the senate. the longest period we have had in many decades of one party being in total control of the house, the senate, and the presidency for six years was during the republican rule from 2001 through 2006, and they didn't do it. so let's drop this pretense. they are bluffing! in fact, many of the special provisi...

People, it's now tasked with regulating the dark money in our elections that wealthy people use to elect people to gut the tax code and the irs. >> it's either lois lerner or the general council of the irs or somebody at the white house saying, or somebody at the treasury saying, the irs better get on crossroads gps. >> conservatives recognize that one of the only things standing between us and a genuine plutocracy are thousands of anonymous bureaucrats doing the basic work of enforcing our nation's laws. joining me now, msnbc contributor, former congressman, barney frank, democrat from massac...