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Was going? >> i don't know. >> bill: he never told you? >> once you started down that rude would begin to unravel the entire operation. we still had some of these people that we needed for intelligence value. but my point to him and the president ultimately agreed is that we had done nothing to be ashamed of. >> bill: so he didn't want any exposition of what the u.s.a. was doing at all. >> that's my recollection, yes, right. >> bill: all right. now, he is a hard guy, cheney. is he a tough guy. all right? and he wanted north korea to be one, a terrorism list. you wanted to engage them. the hope...

Was going? >> i don't know. >> bill: he never told you? >> once you started down that rude would begin to unravel the entire operation. we still had some of these people that we needed for intelligence value. but my point to him and the president ultimately agreed is that we had done nothing to be ashamed of. >> bill: so he didn't want any exposition of what the u.s.a. was doing at all. >> that's my recollection, yes, right. >> bill: all right. now, he is a hard guy, cheney. is he a tough guy. all right? and he wanted north korea to be one, a terrorism list. you wanted to engage them. the hope...

Of reopening talks leading to the six-party talks again? is there any indication they have changed their mind with or without kim jong-il? >> no, not at all. it really is, if you go back and look at the history. you can see in a sense, the north koreans have been trained because whether it's the clinton administration or frankly the bush administration, when in the aftermath of the discovery they had been building a nuclear reactor, state removed them from the terrorism list in exchange what steps they were supposed to take. i don't know many people were surprised that it was clear they broken...

Of reopening talks leading to the six-party talks again? is there any indication they have changed their mind with or without kim jong-il? >> no, not at all. it really is, if you go back and look at the history. you can see in a sense, the north koreans have been trained because whether it's the clinton administration or frankly the bush administration, when in the aftermath of the discovery they had been building a nuclear reactor, state removed them from the terrorism list in exchange what steps they were supposed to take. i don't know many people were surprised that it was clear they broken...

He is a tough guy. he wanted north north korea to n that terrorism list. you wanted to engage them with the hope that you could bring them into some kind of rationale. >> rationality and north korea should never be in the same sentence. >> bill: all right. >> what i wanted was inspectors on the ground. i wanted the north koreans begin to dismantle their nuclear capability for plutonium bomb. and i believed we were going to learn more on the ground than sitting in washington, d.c. and doing nothing about the program. >> bill: another disagreement that happens all the time. >> it's a disagreemen...