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National security skraeser to the president and his senior national security advise or the campaign and, of course, george papadopoulos. and we'll see who is next. but to say that there is no collusion is just materially untrue. of course there was collusion. was there a conspiracy? that's what we're going to find out. >> ken dilanian, i misspoke. the president didn't say he would not speak to bob mueller. he just didn't answer the question about whether or not he would speak to bob mueller today the same way he answered it when asked about it in the past. i wonder if you can button this up fo...

I would say with regard to his recitations that there was no collusion. absolutely there was collusion. the three top people in the campaign met with intelligence great operatives of the prussian government for the purposes of receiving information from the russians that would damage the democratic nominee for president of the united states. so there is definitely collusion. now the question that the special prosecutor, the special counsel will find here was whether there was a criminal conspiracy between the campaign working with the russians to effect the outcome of the presidential election...

There -- legal experts say trump could resist and claim constitutive privilege. there's united states versus nixon that says a criminal investigation trumps executive privilege. if mueller really wants him to talk, he'll have to talk or claim his fifth amendment right against self-incrimination which would be incredibly politically disastrous, you could argue for donald trump. but you're right. it's interesting that he seems to be wavering about -- and you know, he might be subject to more risk over the justice question than the obstruction question. maybe he's witneconvinced there collusion. ...

To talk to trump some time soon about that. that may be true. the obstruction of justice case goes over a shorter period of time. it's a smaller number of witnesses, and it's out in the open. it's people we know about. the collusion and conspiracy aspect is hidden. so i think we should be very cautious about what we don't know about that case. what witnesses are calling, and the hiring of this cyber expert is interesting. we shouldn't write off the collusion part. here's the thing about the collusion aspect. i've talked to a lot of legal experts who say you cannot get to the bottom of collusio...

>> remember "the new york times" interview with michael schmidt over the holidays? he thought mueller was going to treat him fair. and he went -- >> and that he admired the way eric holder protected president obama. >> yes, nice little -- nice little heads-up to mueller about what he's expecting. but it is the obsession with collusion, i think, one of two things. either he outwardly colluded or he's convinced himself that he's not vulnerable there and that's his safe place. but the obstruction of justice is extraordinarily hard spot for him given everything from instructing don junior and how ...