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A certain degree. it became more about just the antisemitism. >> jamal simmons is 100% right. these are layers. they are all in there. but my only word of caution is, if you cannot criticize a black woman because she is a woman and because she is black, substantively, that creates a chilling effect that is kind of anathema to what we are trying to do in academia. >> we'll have to leave it. there s. e. cupp and jamal simmons, thank you. both. and a stunning attack in a courtroom today, caught on tape. see what happened after this. >> [bleep]

We have not had people turn to the question of whether or not the president was was qualified to be president at all. and that is the question, when we get to claudine gay, why is it that, once again, we have an african american woman in positions of leadership when people are upset about something she did, substantial substantively, when people have a right to be upset about, but the attack that does korean is the one about her qualifications. should she even have the job to start with? i've said this before, i work for the vice president. i have seen how people come after kamala harris. not ...

She is not the cause of antisemitism on college campuses campuses. her resignation will not solve this scourge. it is a much bigger problem and it has to be examined. and these retaliatory takedowns are i think corrupting very complicated conversation that we're not really having. >> that's interesting. on the point of the racism, i want to read a little of what she said about that. she said they recycled tired racial stereotypes about black talent and temperament, and pushed false narrative of indifference and incompetence. one of the reasons she is saying that is contrary to what s. e. is sa...

Her handling of questions about antisemitism on campus, and while saying she should have cited other scholars, she defends herself against allegations of plagiarism. she also says that she faced death threats and was called the n-word in those weeks leading up to her decision to step down. also issued a warning, noting the what happened at harvard is bigger than her. for more want to bring in cnn political commentators s.e. cupp and jamal simmons. s. e., this is the first time we're hearing from. her what do you make of what she had to say? >> let me start with the bad news. i thought it was r...