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Using it for his personal gain. i think it's very clear he was trying to undermine free and fair elections in 2020. and i think it's very clear that he is trying to use a foreign power to do so. so i think the american people understand this on a very basic level. that's why too all of us came together as veterans and national security professionals to write that op-ed because to us it was very clear what the violation is right now. and that's what we're pursuing. >> so here are the president's most offered defenses by the better minds around him. one, we've got a treaty in place with ukraine ...

Are you swayed by any of that? >> no, none of those, if you dig into the evidence, make any sense. for example, just one of those, that he cares about corruption. well, the reason that this official was removed was because he would not investigate corruption. so none of these defenses hold wter. but i think what we really have to examine, and we really just have to focus on, is the fact that we have a president really putting our national security in jeopardy. we have a president withholding critical security aid from a security partner who's really trying to -- >> even though they ultimately ...

>> i think that outside the base i don't think the biden thing is going to be too helpful to this president because i think at the end of the day jenna you wind up with them at worst in the exact same position. if you want to argue that what biden did is wrong i think you get caught almost with the same stick. but i think that the bigger concerns in terms of what you'll see as a defense for this president, i want your take on this, is okay, now i care about corruption. that's what the president is telling us. what you'll have to defend is why have you never done anything about corruption befor...