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>> well, they have a country and can oppose taxes. there is islamic tax that goes back to the koran, 5%. that's a lot of money on 8 million people. and we still don't know, by the way, how much money is coming out of the gulf. i mean, i have my suspicions but a lot of people in saudi arabia and the rest of the gulf believe that the islamic state is holding back this shia menace in damascus and baghdad. so they do have sympathizers. i mean, we really have to look at the symptoms, what has created the islamic state and not leave it as a terrorist organization. >> that's a great point. fascinatin...

They have homes. what these soldiers have done is formed a de-facto state and said, look, we're the police here. we're the mafia. if you make income, we charge you 10%. if you have a business, it's 10% business tax. 2% sales tax. they have a special tax on christians called the jizia. if you buy pharmaceuticals in mosul, you pay tax on that, too. this is how they are squeezing money out of their population. which is why if you take this logic one step further, this is why a bombing campaign will only choke off a part of their income. as long as they hold land and can control these people, they...

Segregate. i mean, look, poppy, this is a long war to begin with. you want to increase the possibility of additional attacks? well, then you hunker down and you stigmatize and you alienate. and, frankly, over time, that's going to get us into a great deal of trouble. i'm simply calling -- >> all right. >> -- for more realism in our debates. >> we'll be listening to what they all say on tuesday night in the gop debate. aaron david miller, thank you very much. read his fascinating op-ed in "the wall street journal." next, how does isis fund itself? wait until you hear the extraordinary money t...

Museum pieces ripped off the walls in mosul. the seller, isis. the buyer, the highest bidder. >> they loot everything that is not nailed down. >> reporter: michael is academic director of oriental school and research. he consults for the state department on what he sees as isis' systematic looting as the middle east's ancient past. >> they actively promote looting as a way to generate money. they don't make this a secret. it's done very overtly. >> reporter: isis destroyed statues at the museum. in october, it was the building in palmyra blown up. this is the smaller items that

Terrorist or organization. >> it's like auditing a company and yet this stuff can't be stopped. bob baer, to you. now we see how they have rapidly become this incredibly well financially endowed terrorist organization. who is buying the oil? >> the oil is very easy to smuggle out. you just simply drive it across the border into iraq or up to the turkish border in small trucks, big trucks. when you drive these roads, they are slick with oil. it's amazing. i've been up there a lot. this is an old, established commerce and once isis took over, the major fields in the east, the french company, the...