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He needs to think about what's going on in mariupol. you have a steel factory, no the a tractor factory like they had in stalingrad. they are using cover and concealment. i don't see them surrendering any time soon. regardless of what happens, the fight in mariupol, just like the fight in stalingrad, will inspire generations of ukrainians. >> i think that could certainly be true. they have certainly done that so far the last several weeks. you say putin needs to study history. we heard from the pentagon they think russia is learning its lessons about what happened in the beginning of this inva...

Ineptitude and it is a tough country to negotiate with in good faith. >> it is. david ignatius, still ukraine neglecting with russia and the two sides actually trying to figure out how to get to a place where, one, lives can be saved in ukraine and, two, vladimir putin's third-rate army will cease to be exposed for just the absolute debacle that it is. >> this is a war that's painful for both sides, where both sides do have reason to negotiate. russia has reason to negotiate because its forces increasingly are walking into what would be a long-term trap. it will take them years to get out of u...

You very much. i'm joined now by tom nichols. and charles carruthers. i will ask you the same questions. you teach students of war. you teach our war makers. i've been stunned. the idea that there were two big superpowers, the united states and russia, was predicated on the idea that russia is a lethal army. what this sounds like is sort of a terrorist gang. they kill a lot of people and done a lot of damage. the story that the army doesn't have enough food to supply themselves. having to abandon their vehicles because they don't have enough fuel. this sounds like a ragtag third- rate army. ar...

Information intercepted. they're using commercial gps devices in airplanes. they're using spare parts in their jets from american commercial aircraft. totally not secure. you would be court-martialed in the united states if you did such a thing. it appears to be a third-rate army that can't fight other armies, that can only kill people whether it is in grozny or in kyiv. >> there's been a lot of corruption, a lot of hollowing out. one thing we should be very, very wary of and aware of is that in these military reforms russia has been undertaking in the last few years they've incorporated tacti...