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Initiated by all the companies that found the way to michael cohen on their own or were they being effectively held up? >> and investigation done by cnn shows that cohen himself has at least six different shell companies. the news tonight relates to an llcz that raise questions about -- >> don, remember, this llc was created specifically for the benefit of trump a couple weeks before the election. >> two weeks before the election. and two weeks -- i should say two weeks before the deal was done with stormy daniels. it was created. go ahead, norm. you want to respond to any of that? >> well, yo...

The documents are fake. and we don't know where michael avenatti got these. we don't know if they're complete. there are a lot of unanswered questions. i guarantee you the prosecutors do know that. they have these doubts so that is not an unanswered question for them, as it is for us. but where are the $35,000 payments from trump, on a monthly basis. they didn't go into this llc which paid stormy daniels. so, you know, in some ways it gives us an inkling on what was going on with michael cohen in the past year and a half that are suspicious but there are questions unanswered. >> okay -- >> i'm...

$130,000 was legit, and completely above board, and there was nothing to hide, then why did they go to such efforts to hide it? why create this llc? why create bogus legal invoices? why go through the process of paying multiple payments until you gross up the amount to $130,000 plus taxes? why wouldn't mr. giuliani send a wire for $10,000? they're never going to have a good explanation for that, don. and the reason is there is no good explanation. they conspired to hide this payment, to bury this payment. and they then proceeded, when somebody began to call them on the carpet on it, namely us,...

Were other laws broken? >> well, i think other laws may have been broken to potentially depending on how this was done, money laundering, bank fraud. i'm going to go back to something i said pretty consistently in the last 24 hour. if it was legit and above board and there was nothing to hide, then why did they go to such efforts to hide it? why create this llc? why go through the process of paying multipenalty payments until you gross up the amount to $130,000 plus taxes? why wouldn't mr. giuliani send a wire for $10,000? they're never going to have a good explanation for that, don. and the r...

An abortion, she wanted some money from him and he gave some money. that's of interest to his family and her family, but i don't know what the -- what the claim of any criminality is. >> the whole use of the llc though, right? that seems strange. >> i mean, everything about it is strange, but, you know, it shows his mo of, you know, he uses this llc, which is what he also used to pay stormy daniels, but in terms of something illegal, i don't -- jennifer, do you see something illegal in this? >> i don't. people talk about anytime you're hiding money, people start talking about money laundering,...