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These two men quite well. author of the now very well known ""devil's bargain." and thomas ricks is here, "churchill and yoorwell." josh, to you first. "the journal" editorial board i think has written two or three critical opinion pieces about this president, but generally pretty friendly. this is something rupert murdoch would have to sign off on. >> absolutely. i think the cause "the journal's" concern is bannon has almost an isolationist view of american foreign policy. even though bannon doesn't have the kind of national security credentials you would expect from somebody who was once on ...

Particular countries that have this particular religion. and so for him to say now, i don't care what you call it, it is a travel ban, guess what, the courts care what you call it because we do have laws and we do follow those laws and we could not discriminate against groups of people. >> in fact, the aclu tweeted that out exactly last night. they said we are in agreement with the president, it is, in fact, a ban. we know that the president is excellent at revving up his base. but will this not be another example of revving up your base doesn't get laws passed? if he's saying i don't want to ...

Remember it taught us never go against the family, which may or may not be relevant in this white house. thomas risk, pulitzer prize winning reporter and author, appreciate your time tonight. >> you're welcome. >> and we will be right back. when you booked this trip, you didn't know we had over 26,000 local activities listed on our app. or that you could book them right from your phone. a few weeks ago, you still didn't know if you were gonna go. now the only thing you don't know, is why it took you so long to come here.

Joining me now is the man behind that op-ed, thomas ricks, the pulitzer prize winning former reporter for "the wall street journal" and "the washington post," and we should note the author of the book "churchill & orwell: the fight for freedom." great to have you here this evening. >> thank you. >> you wrote this op-ed. it is somewhat unusual in its advice on substance and certainly in its style. what are you trying to get across? >> well, i agree with everything you said in your introduction except for one word, forced. and that's key. general mcmaster was not forced to stand up and do these ...

What if he is replaced by a right wing extremist who operates on an alternative set of facts? so much the better, i say. and here is why, the author writes. the saving grace of donald trump as president is his incompetence. he knows almost nothing of how the federal government works. joining me now is the man behind that op-ed, thomas ricks, the pulitzer prize winning former reporter for "the wall street journal" and "the washington post," and we should note the author of the book "churchill & orwell: the fight for freedom." great to have you here this evening. >> thank you. >> you wrote this ...