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Ground up. they did not try to copy apple on the left, they built a new tiled software. neil: you do not have to have windows 8, it enables such screen technology so they may leapfrog over apple but they like the rodney dangerfield, apple is cool and they are not. i don t think that is fair but how do they overcome that? clayton: if you talk about it among the nerds in the tech press and i will speak for you, too, i know you are a prime nerd and we are excited, it is an exciting time because microsoft has doning in nerdy and those in the tech press are excited about what they have done. the hip factor, people are talking about microsoft again. you have seen the earnings because people are . neil: people say it is confusing because there are two different shifts. ....