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African-americans, so i don't think it's purely racial, but a thin diagram, an overlap between the racial -- >> and let me suggest that there's also -- there's a set of extra nalities. so i agree with you that the attacks on presidents are partisan attacks on presidents. they not only said mean things about bill clinton, they actually impeached bill clinton. anytime people said, it's never been this bad, i'm, like, have you never read a history book? of course, it's been this bad. the election of an afric african-american president, it meant something about the possibility of a fully unfettere...

Realities exists in the same -- >> well, this was the challenge for us as we were trying to decide whether or not to have the conversation today. again, jonathan, part of why i want you here, thinking about discourse and language. i do try to stay away from, like, race conversations that are just about saying mean things about each other. you know, a lot of that makes me want to shrug, yeah, i don't care. you can have in your heart what you want to have. do the policies you support increase or decrease racial inequality. >> everything i say about the media does not include you. this is one pla...