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Know, quote unquote flipped on the president was being defended by the president and rudy as an upstanding man, a good family man. and the second he flipped, all of a sudden he's the devil incarnate with a shady family that deserves investigation, wink, wink, nod, nod. >> all we know is what we've seen publicly from the statements they've made. i think it's a really interesting question is is there more? you know, did they send a private investigator out on the father-in-law? are there any actions they've taken other than make the statements? so the statements themselves, yes, he they' yes, th...

Testifying, if that's the real reason he's not testifying, what the long term implications are. but let's start with this idea of the threats. >> right. >> i think sometimes we become numb to things. i think if these threats had been an e-mail and we discovered them leaked out we'd be shocked. but since they were said outloud on tv, somehow it's less shocking. >> right. >> as an attorney when you look at what the president rudy giuliani said. >> it's problematic. the president runs the department -- oversees the united states department of justice, all u.s. attorneys, the fbi, it all falls und...