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People. >> how do you remember him on the stand? >> i think he was calm. i think he answered the questions as best he could. very simply, i think very completely. we felt that we had made a showing that the state had met the burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt. >> mike pannell had waited four long years to get justice for his sister, but now he wasn't sure what the jury would do. there. >> were times that i felt the evidence was very circumstantial. >> in this day and age, we know that juries really like to see forensics. >> right. >> the dna, the blood samples, and they didn't visit. >>...

>> frankly, i think circumstantial is sometimes the best, because they don't lie. the circumstances don't lie. people lie. >> and that's the case lowry made to the jury. the circumstances show tim perminter was the only one with the motive and the opportunity to kill karen. and everything he did afterwards was fabricated to cover up his horrendous crime. >> the issues in this case were the murder of karen which the only person who could have done it, and that person lied about all these things. there is no reason for a person to lie about the death of their loved one if that's really true. >> ...

Relationship and that ultimately led to her death. >> prosecutor lowry says perminter thought he could outsmart the cop, by acting the bereaved boyfriend, playing to it the hilt. but the prosecutor says he got thrown off his tear-stained script when he called his best friend soon after making that 911 call. >> he says catherine, i'm tim. i'm at karen's apartment. she is laying on the floor. there is blood everywhere and she has been stabbed. >> stabbed? >> stabbed. >> not dead, she has been stabbed. >> and he tells her on the phone according to katherine that she's been stabbed. >> okay. well,...

He charged perminter with first-degree murder and decided to seek the death penalty. then just weeks before the trial was scheduled to start, tim's friend george solomon, his sleep-over alibi witness recanted his story. >> he tells me this whole new story that perminter had admitted that he killed karen that night. >> blurted out a confession? >> when he got up there. >> so that's a holy cow moment for you. >> it is. >> this one had taken four long years, and despite building a strong circumstantial case, prosecutors did not have a murder weapon or other physical evidence linking tim perminter...

>> after the trial, roc herpich was free to ride his harley, but told us it still ate him up that a man he never met tried to frame him for murder. if you could sit down and talk to him the way we're talking here, what would you say to him? >> i am restrained correct? i couldn't get to him, right? >> should we tie him to the chair in this scenario? >> i would not be a good communicator in that conversation mode with him sitting there. i couldn't do it. >> mike pannell couldn't do it either. he'd rather not think about tim perminter and the last moments of his precious baby sister's life. >> i'...