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Citizens are safe, housed, healthy and for the most part economically successful, the singaporean government has been effective at keeping the masses placated enough, willing to accept curbs on their freedom and civil liberties. do you think that the singaporean success story is a rebuke to american and western values in some respect? >> donald: no, no. >> anthony: i mean, is free speech overrated? >> donald: i don't think we succeeded because the absence of free speech. >> anthony: it's a fact, though. >> donald: the values of free trade, the values of a liberal global order, these are wester...

>> anthony: one-fifth of the world's shipping containers move through the port of singapore. it is the busiest transshipment point on the planet. singapore has fully embraced globalization. and that's proved in their case very rewarding. >> donald: singapore is an outsized economic port primarily because it's so attractive to foreign entrepreneurs primarily in the form of multinational corporations. so right from the start, the economic strategy was always to attract foreign capital. >> anthony: donald low is an economist who spent over ten years researching and

Writing about singapore's unique financial policies. >> donald: you know, this place is almost contrary to the founders' original expectations. this place was this multiethnic meritocratic idea, this pragmatic understanding that free trade is good for everyone. this is place is, after 50 years, is deeply imprinted in singapore. it's remarkable how open and welcoming of diversity singapore still is. >> anthony: we are now living in times where globalism and globalization are bad words. we are seeing a rise of -- >> donald: yeah, i know, populism. >> anthony: -- of populism, of nationalism. >> d...

Prosperity, its stability, one ounce. what will we lose if we had a free uprise? what would we lose if we had more democratic opposition representation? it would make for not only a livelier debate, it would make for a better debate. we may well arrive at the conclusion that the current dispensation of the current order represents the best possible society for singapore. but let's have that debate. >> anthony: i mean, it's a horrifying thought, "what if?" >> donald: it's possible that the human mind, that the average citizen, cannot deal with that much diversity, that we need these curbs or re...

Singapore will not thrive in such a world. ♪ >> anthony: a lot of social engineering has been superimposed to hold that together, and i think what a lot of westerners who come to singapore come here skeptical are often reluctantly holding to the inescapable conclusion that it seems to work. >> donald: it seems to work. but of course, the post independence singapore government has been often accused of being extremely keen and extremely competent at social engineering. of course, the most powerful instrument of social engineering is public housing. you know, before, singaporeans, a large majo...