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And that meant, of course, then, that the problems of society would be solved by expert knowledge, not social institutions. it's meant really to replace civil society, these structures. and in a certain way that goes -- that extends all the way down almost to the family. that every other kind of social organization that once dealt with the problems that are now handled by bureaucracies, all of those things have been turned over, you might say, to professions, to expert knowledge. mark: now you've used the word experts, professional, rational. that doesn't mean they're truly experts in human na...

Administrative or rational state. and that meant, of course, then, that the problems of society would be solved by expert knowledge, not social institutions. it's meant really to replace civil society, these structures. and in a certain way that goes -- that extends all the way down almost to the family. that every other kind of social organization that once dealt with the problems that are now handled by bureaucracies, all of those things have been turned over, you might say, to professions, to expert knowledge. mark: now you've used the word experts, professional, rational. that doesn't mean...