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How damaging was that? what message did that send to putin that trump was willing to hold back military supplies for domestic squabbles? >> joe, i think you are exactly right. that sent the message to mr. putin that maybe we weren't in this, maybe we weren't in this for the fight, maybe we didn't have the guts to do that. that could have encouraged him. you talked about what president trump did, holding back military supplies, just what tom was just saying. we should have been supplying those all the way through. that was a mistake. >> yes, but the interesting thing, bolton, john bolton, made ...

Not weeks from now but sooner? >> mika, there are other weapons systems that go after aircraft. >> but can they get there? >> that's exactly the right question. now, going across the border is easier for ukrainians than it is for the russians to stop it. this russians don't know the territory. >> right. >> the russians are on foreign territory and they don't understand the back roads. so we have an advantage, the ukrainians have an valid, the pols have an advantages in that they know the back roads and how get across the rivers. >> and what surprised you 13, 14 days into the battle? >> here we...

Incredible courage and fighting spirit has impressed the world. are you surprised by what you have seen from the people in that country to hold up this well against a military as big as russia's? >> i'm not surprised. ukrainian, as tom just said, have unified. ukrainians are united against russia. they've never been more unified. we talked about russian speaking, ukrainian speaking, it doesn't matter. they are unified against this invasion, against russia, against putin and they're going to resist. the russians don't have enough people, soldiers, to occupied and hold this country against 44 mi...

Insurgency. >> tom, you summarized well where the situation is right now. talk to us a little bit how putin would define intern intervention, because there are some people saying, look, if you drag 29 migs across the polish border, you can't fly them, but if you drag them in he would interpret it as intervention and escalation and it will lead to direct confrontation. is that something we should pay attention to? >> of course. but he has had a rolling definition of intervention. he has supplying the ukrainian forces is intervention, and i think it is a rolling -- kind of rolling definition for...

Reports they sent a lot of shock troops from moscow and other places here to do crowd control, but also if they come up with conscription, if you see the russian government call for conscription mostly the lower class is what ends up participating in the russian army. if it starts trickling into the middle class you will have a very dynamic situation in russia that will send a shock wave back through a country that doesn't understand what is going on here right now. >> clint watts, thank you very much. joining us to talk about all of this former u.s. ambassador to european bill taylor and fo...