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Out in his defense of the u.s. strategy against isis, the answer to that question is complicated. >> this is not, as i said, a traditional military opponent. we can retake territory. and as long as we leave our troops there, we can hold it. but that does not solve the underlying problem of elimina eliminating dynamics that are producing these kind of violent extremist groups. >> unlike more traditional terror groups, isis does not rely on the support of state sponsors or foreign funding to thrive but the group has been able to act as a state by taking over and holding a vast swath land on the ...

You can hear the glasses tinkling. feel the laughter peeling out of the night spots. these people took this soft target and said, you are all vulnerable. how do you go about fighting a force like this? >> well, there are a couple of things. although president obama spoke in halting terms from the clip you just showed, he's absolutely right. this is a multidimensional problem that has to address not only the effects of what isis and al qaeda and other groups are doing, but also you have to get at the causes. you can't just mop up the water, you have to cut off the faucet. part of the way to do ...

>> keir, my question for you, this is a place this hotel in particular, sort of a safe haven, a place where clearly western diplomats and leaders of refugee groups were coming to have this meeting. a big target on its side. is there a sense you have -- here's a country that is no stranger to this kind of violence. what's the feeling on street there today? >> i think the sense of shock and, you're right, they also have had these jihad it's attacks on a regular basis. perhaps not in the capital so often. so there's a certain sense of resignation. beau why they targeted this hotel, as you mention...

Happened in africa was in response to what happened in france? >> you know, i don't believe so. i think the raids, and we're talking about mali here, if you will. i think if it was, indeed, al qaeda, not a splitter cell of isis that is operating there, which we know is one. if it's al qaeda, it's trying to assert its power. saying, web have not died yet. we're capable of carrying out attacks that will get the media abuzz. so this rivalry we could exploit in one way or another later, get those groups to fight against each other like what's happening in syria. i believe is ironic in one way but ...

Europe. you see the right wing in europe rising up. le pen and the national front. in austria, there's the right wing. in hungary, there's the right wing. we've been there before, right? the european right is not a very comforting group to see take power and gain power. >> all right. this thing happens in mali then yesterday. it's not isis. it's an al qaeda offshoot. and there's a very interesting piece in "the new york times" this morning about there being this literal rivalry between al qaeda and isis. who's the most ruthless? who really has the right track to jihad? do you sense that's real...