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Chain of command at the white house. john kelly's decreasing -- he has abandoned trying to manage the president. all he is in charge of is staff and process. this seems like a failure on both those fronts. >> absolutely. first of all, let's not lose sight. you touched on eli. this obscure of the va. they were not prepared for the wars we went into in the early oos and the way times are excruciating and -- >> people die. >> people are dying. there is a kind of washington spectacle here. >> we're having a political conversation, but people suffering from ptsd or tbi who can't get a bed or can't ...

>> well, i think that's -- that was the major reason secretary shulkin got canned. he had a boneheaded incident with the travel thing but i think he was fighting with political appointees in his own agent. i must admit there is an argument that the va, which is an absolutely national treasure to the veterans -- once you're in it, in the system, they're just terrific docs, medical care is first rate. we spend a ton of money supporting our veterans. the most generous nation on the face of the earth to our veterans. but the va's got endemic problems. they've had a lot of problems with institution...

Argument that the va, which is an absolutely national treasure to the veterans -- once you're in it, in the system, they're just terrific docs, medical care is first rate. we spend a ton of money supporting our veterans. the most generous nation on the face of the earth to our veterans. but the va's got endemic problems. they've had a lot of problems with institutional lack of integrity. not telling the boss the truth. they just can't seem to organize themselves. there is a solid argument to have every veteran have a credit card with a chip in it that says, here's the care he's authorized, and...

Decide whether to go to a va facility or to go to a private practitioner. i might add, that's a way the military medical retirement system works. if i had a choice, i'd go to walter reed. because i live in seattle, i use swedish hospital. so i think we've got to do something to have competition and to downsize the va and not try and have them take care of the direct care of veterans all over the nation. >> with us from washington tonight, always a great pleasure to have you on the broadcast, general barry mccaffrey, sir, thank you very much. >> all right, brian, good to be with you. coming u...

Annual storm the hill advocacy event. it is the 11th year. every year, we're talking about va scandals. this has been a problem for now president trump. it was a problem for president obama. it was a problem back to president bush, as well. the va is constantly a problem of instability. now, we've got a total failure of leadership at the v.a facility, literally in the shadow of the white house. it is in their backyard. there has been a leadership failure of accountability. this is why advocacy matters. we appreciate you bringing attention to this. this is the issue that is below the headlines ...