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I wonder if people care about the feelings of people running the nation's top spy agencies or top law enforcement agencies. >> well, i'm not a lawyer, but i believe to prove a criminal case of obstruction of justice, you have to prove it was done corruptly with an intent to obstruct. not just suggesting to someone but, you know, in the presidential context, actually ordering. and so whether they felt pressured or not i think is significant from a legal perspective, but as meike said, tvs n it's not significant from a political perspective, from an abuse of power perspective. >> michael schmidt...