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Procurement system. it's even worse than the department of defense. it takes forever to build things. many of these cases by the times something hits the field not only does it not work right the first time but it is about 15 years past when they started defining it and it's no longer even the state of the art. the question is you mentioned 60 some countries have something like this. this move to a nonprofit has been tried by other countries. what is the experience in canada. >> it's one of the best examples. at 20 years old now. completely supported by user payments. is run as a user co-op. n...

Procurement system, some members of congress, some democrats said it's even worse than the department of defense. many of these cases by the time something hits the field, not only does it not work right the first time, but it's about 15 years past when they started defining it and it's no longer even state of the art. paul: okay, the question is you mentioned 60-something odd countries have something like this. >> right. paul: move to nonprofit has been tried by other countries, what's the experience, for example, in canada? >> canada is one of the best examples. 20 years old. it's basically ...