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End running them in terms of legal evasion. what stands out to me the most is the valuations of these properties. for tax purposes, there was a low value set for the property so taxes paid were reduced. and when collateralizing for other loans and matters by which they sought equity, the value was inflated. that movement of value of property within a short period of time to me, reflects more on the evasion side of the leather than the avoidance side of the leather. >> there's something, let's bring you in on this. i thought what was interesting in terms of architecture was when the family or w...

We had the same value set. we had a different perspective. you know, as long as you were honorable, as long as you were honest, as long as you didn't leave anybody debehind, treated people with dignity, you can get along with john, even if you strongly disagreed with him, like i did on the war in iraq. >> give him some space. >> but if, in fact, we didn't have the basic american values, he didn't have a lot of respect for you. >> great interview there by our own nbc's national political reporter mike memoli, who joins us now live from pittsburgh. mike, incredible job. congratulations. no one k...

Now, sir, talk about what this means in terms of your political future here. is this an audition for 2020? >> i've known these guys my whole life. i'd go anywhere with these guys. these are the guys that brought me to the dance as the saying goes. royalty. >> mr. vice president -- >> let's move down the hill, give him some space. >> mr. vice president. you're a former chairman of the judiciary committee. what is your advice about how to handle this going forward? >> stay in the room, demand answers and keep pointing out that you have -- they have not given them the material that was expected o...

It was always about basic values with john. fairness, honesty, dignity, respect. giving hate no safe harbor. leaving no one behind, understanding as americans we're part of something much bigger than ourselves. with john it was a value set not selfish or self serving. john understood that america was first and foremost an idea, audacious and risky, organized around, not tribe but around ideals. the ideals that americans have rallied around the ideals of the world, an idea enshrined in the constitution. sounds corny.

Politicians trying to regulate it. it's not enough. you got a bunch of software engineers who are trying to move into a space of regulation, balancing free speech concerns and they're not equipped to do it. i appreciate the value set of letting everybody talk and trying to keep it open. that's a real thing. but when you have the misuse of data by cambridge analytica, people who are inciting violence, who have denied the murder of children in school shootings -- >> 5-year-old children. >> these guys better get their act together because the rest of us are watching our country go up in flames be...