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Them more. when joe biden gets to the point of frustration and concern about the state of our democracy, that he is now calling for a constitutional carve-out, that is a very big deal. it's a victory for the forward-going process. unfortunately, we are not talking about that enough. >> dana, let's talk about the forward going process because even if the president is now calling for that, which he has, van rightly pointed out, that's not something he has been saying heretofore. i mean, unless he can suddenly whisper that into joe manchin's ear and kyrsten sinema's ear, does it really matter? >>...

To vote. this is what the grassroots movement has been asking for, has been calling for, has been demanded. and they won today and i think it's a very big deal. there is nobody who respects the u.s. senate more than joe biden. there is nobody who cares more about those rules and cherishes them more. when a joe biden gets to the point of frustration and concern about the state of our democracy, that he is now calling for a constitutional carve-out, that is a very big deal. it's a victory for the forward-going process. unfortunately, we are not talking about that enough. >> well, dana, let's tal...