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Caught, if he is indicted, will he flip on the president? >> what do you make of his claim he has insurance against trump? >> it was such an odd claim. of course, it's illegal for an attorney to engage in that sort of a practice, vis-a-vis a client and this really change shift where initially he's clearly talking about the president and somehow on twitter it becomes that he's got four decades worth of information on bind, really doesn't make any sense. it looks more like he's grasping at straws than anything else. >> robert, you said there they're still close. you don't threaten somebody you a...

Home. that's vis-a-vis obama. the big question was obama a unique high point in black turnout or can it be replicated? i think there are some reasons to think maybe it can't be replicated by anybody else, and the previous high point is probably where the black vote is for democrats. but really, it's -- it could be either way. and i think that there are different theories of how to win the race. and a second theory is it's -- >> wait, hold on, hold on. pete williams is with us. he has a ruling on don mcgahn. pete, what do you have? >> don mcgahn must testify before the house judiciary committee...

In fact, here's gordon sondland asked about this very issue. >> the president never told you about any preconditions for the aid to be released? >> no. >> the president never told you about any preconditions for a white house meeting? >> personally, no. i'm not testifying that i heard the president tell mr. giuliani to tell us. >> have any witnesses testified that the president himself explicitly linked a white house meeting with these meetings. >> the person who meets with the president every day on live camera admitted exactly that, vis-a-vis the most serious, and that is the military aid. b...

Is it a credible allegation? is it worth -- let me put it this way. is it worth the house ethics committee looking into? or is it just nonsense that should be ignored? >> i don't want to comment on what the ethics committee should do. particularly vis-a-vis the ranking member of my committee. i will say that we have subpoenaed and did before these allegations were in the public domain, we have subpoenaed mr. parnas and mr. fruman for their records. we would like them to fully comply with those subpoenas. we may go beyond those documentary requests, but we first want to see the documents. and w...

The president tell mr. giuliani to tell us. >> have any witnesses testified that the president himself explicitly linked a white house meeting or the $400 million in aid to an announcement about the investigations? >> yes. the president's own chief of staff, the person who meets with the president every day on live camera admitted exactly that. vis-a-vis the most serious and that is the military aid. but, look, what ambassador sondland did say is everyone was in loop on the preconditioning of the meeting that ukraine desperately sought for its recognition that it had -- that the united states ...