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With just democratic voters. schumer's point is if you're waiting for republicans, you're waiting until you're blue in the face, they're not going to be for any voting law changes. schumer is gearing up for a necessary defeat, meaning he's going to lose, he understands that. he sees it as a long term policy prerogative that he does this now. i will say one other issue, katy. there is a bipartisan group that's talking about a scaled-back voting package that deals with things on a much narrower scale, that if this fails, when this fails later today, they might be able to get some energy around t...

>> that's where we're headed now, joe. tonight around 6:30 or so, we're expected to see the first of these votes. that's actually to move for closure on the voting rights bills you talked about. that is expected to fail, because of of a lack of republican support. then we're going to see schumer and democrats move onto voting on a targeted rules change that would bring back a talking filibuster for this package of voting right bills specifically. we know, though, that senator kyrsten sinema is not for that. neither is senator joe manchin. we actually expect to hear from him on the floor of the...

He said the exact same thing, that is something cedric rich moan, senior advisor to the president also told me he's hoping this is what advocates do. advocates and activists, that's their job to remain more hopeful than the rest of us, i think. >> i'm trying hard to be skeptical, but not cynical. it's not exactly a new year's resolution, but i'm working on, it jonathan, to this point, there's a lot of ways to keep the voting package front and center including elements of it. how does the white house with the decision they're trying to stay out of the legislative day-to-day, feel about multiple...

Anything. it's been a long time since the covid relief bill passed. how do you think democrats are doing overall? >> look, the threat to our democracy, on voting, is enormous. this one is existential. we have to fight back against republicans cutting out people from being able to vote and cutting out the effectiveness of their vote. remember we keep talking about this, the voting package. it's not only about access to the polls. it's about things like banning gerrymandering and getting that under control. it's about exposing dark money and trying to squeeze it out of elections. it's about anti...

I think there's also some consternation about how long it's been that these infrastructure talks have been going without any signs that we're moving towards passing anything. it's been a long time since the covid relief bill passed. how do you think democrats are doing overall? >> look, the threat to our democracy, on voting, is enormous. this one is existential. we have to fight back against republicans cutting out people from being able to vote and cutting out the effectiveness of their vote. remember we keep talking about this, the voting package. it's not only about access to the polls. it...