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I certainly don't think you can rule it out. and i'm quite surprised by some people who do, because this is about the entire way that putin understands russia. russia in his understanding is a sort of a great power, that comes that has this 1,000 years of history linking back to kyiv and rus. it doesn't make sense if they can't control kyiv. that doesn't have to be literal control. it could be having sort of a pro—russian politician in charge. but essentially they need to be a vassal state. they need to be what he calls a colony because only russia can be sovereign. so i don't think we can r...

Because this is about the entire way that putin understands russia. russia, in his understanding, is a sort of great power, that has this 1,000 years of history linking back to kyiv and rus. it doesn't make sense if they can't control kyiv. that doesn't have to be literal control. it could be having sort of a pro—russian politician in charge. but essentially, they need to be a vassal state. they need to be what he calls a colony because only russia can be sovereign. so i don't think we can rule that out as long as putin or somebody with a similar worldview is in power. so how does this war e...

I mean, you're basically saying there's no real light at the end of the tunnel in the near term. i can't see it and i desperately want to, but i cannot see any light at the end of the tunnel. is there a risk that russia is going to have another go at kyiv, the capital, and try and do a second invasion? i certainly don't think you can rule it out. and i'm quite surprised by some people who do, because this is about the entire way that putin understands russia. russia in his understanding is a sort of a great power, that comes that has this 1,000 years of history linking back to kyiv and rus. it...

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