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Involving porn stars. but it's usually a financial penalty. >> well, the difference between this campaign finance violation and other ones is that it was intentional. it wasn't an accident. and that's a felony. so it's not quite the same thing as just, you know, not -- just missing something. the same way i can make a mistake on my taxes or something and it's not intentional. this clearly was intentional. they were clearly trying to do something here. all that said, do i personally think that that rises to the level of a watergate? no, i don't. i think it's a problem certainly. i think it's a ...

Missing something. the same way i can make a mistake on my taxes or something and it's not intentional. this clearly was intentional. they were clearly trying to do something here. all that said, do i personally think that that rises to the level of a watergate? no, i don't. i think it's a problem certainly. i think it's a problem if the president committed a felony on his way to winning the white house. but i don't -- no. it wouldn't rise to the level of a watergate or, you know, certainly the other accusations against him. >> you know, tim, one other -- many other. but one big difference fro...

Thing. >> those are the places i see parallels with trump. one of the things is that as sort of venal as many people view the president, there's still some sense in which it seems fundamentally unserious to think he sent an e-mail at some point, hack the e-mails. yet who knows? the lesson from watergate is, a president could literally be that venal. >> watergate was initially reported as the watergate caper. it was seen as this funny thing that happened. but in the same way you think -- imagine donald trump jr. dm'ing over twitter with wikileaks. you imagine papadopoulos having meetings. it al...

Think he sent an e-mail at some point, hack the e-mails. yet who knows? the lesson from watergate is, a president could literally be that venal. >> watergate was initially reported as the watergate caper. it was seen as this funny thing that happened. but in the same way you think -- imagine donald trump jr. dm'ing over twitter with wikileaks. you imagine papadopoulos having meetings. it all seems very small. and you can't imagine that a presidential campaign would actually engage in this stuff. so i think that's one of the obstacles to really absorbing it. >> the other one that i've been thin...