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Systematic russian government effort to interfere with the 2016 elections. you have always been skeptical that there was such a plan, that it was some kind of great crime and it needed to be investigated. are you now convinced? >> absolutely not. let me issue the obligatory disclaimer. i am not, nor i have ever been a supporter of donald trump. but i am supporter of facts. let's remember what this story is. because it's the overarching narrative in which mueller and this investigation operate. according to story, russian leader putin directed kind of an attack, they say, on american democracy ...

Does that add additional pressure to rick gates and paul manafort, who may or may not have sympathetomething to tell further about the campaign, they don't know. what the white house would tell you for the record, hey, this has nothing to do with us, if this guy didn't tell the truth, it doesn't in any way impugn there was collusion with russia or impugn the campaign. therefore we don't have much to say about it. i think you'll hear sarah huckabee sanders say something to that effect in the briefing coming up pretty soon. but any action by robert mueller raises the temperature level in the whi...

Today that could help us better understand where mueller's overall investigation is going? >> possibly, but frankly, i doubt it. the way these hearings usually go is the person will say yes, i did all the stuff you say in these charging documents. but that doesn't tell us much. all the fbi says here, all the lawyers say is when they interviewed him last november, he told them two lies that they -- two statements that they say were lies and he's apparently prepared to say he wasn't truthful at that time, about his contacts and his work for manafort and gate six years ago when they hired a washi...

Know, a series of charges in what experts call a powerful case. why would muller still be pressing on that, in this area? and some speculation is mueller really wants to press the case against manafort to convince him to plead guilty and flip and give information, tell what he knows about the trump campaign. >> yes, ken, can we -- can you explain a little bit about what is our sense of how independent the investigation and charges into manafort and gates have become, vis-a-vis the president of the united states and potential collusion? in many ways we seem to when we talk about manafort, we ta...

Story and details that jill just mentioned are key to the mueller investigation. because as is duly noted, there is no clear and direct language in the indictment that say that the trump campaign was directly involved with and conspireing with the russians with the 2016 election. however, if you look at that level of detail and you look at the breadth and depth of the information provided, that is the groundwork upon which mueller and his investigative team is showing the american public, we have evidence. we have information and we are using that information and evidence to advance and progre...