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Participant. he was more of an active than a screenwriter in this. >> i see. >> the thing they were really worry about. this is what i found fascinating. they thought kerry was going to play pattycake with obama in order to curry favor to become secretary of state. at the first couple of prep sessions at the dnc in washington, he was really soft on obama. but it turned out obama is just not the kind of guy you can walk up to and call a failure to his face. i think that holds true with every president in these practice session. obama particularly. >> guess who did? romney did. tell me, check me...

>> kerry was a fairly passive participant. he was more of an active than a screenwriter in this. >> i see. >> the thing they were really worry about. this is what i found fascinating. they thought kerry was going to play pattycake with obama in order to curry favor to become secretary of state. at the first couple of prep sessions at the dnc in washington, he was really soft on obama. but it turned out obama is just not the kind of guy you can walk up to and call a failure to his face. i think that holds true with every president in these practice session. obama particularly. >> guess who did?...