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Civilian deaths? >> the indicators are, he's the leader of the country. he will be implicate in the responsibility for their deaths. in all of the situations that are happening across the middle east right now, we're not going to know the details until the dust is settled. in egypt, the dust is beginning to settle. in libya, we have no idea how much have been killed. will mubarak. gadhafi will bear the responsibility for the deaths in libya. mubarak as president will have to share some of that blame culpability responsibility. >> so good to see you in person. excellent reporting as always. app...

Mubarak. we should look at the democratic evolution. i think the schedule that the secretary of state indicated last week of a process that goes on over a period of months and culminates sometimes in the fall in a general election, but a change of government much sooner of course, for which negotiations should be going on, that is the -- hopeful. but it should not look as if it is an american project because is this element of nationalism, nationalists who are british, russian, very proud people. >> neil: secretary, you might be right about the need for process and keeping it orderly. i'm wond...

Associate director of energy under president bush. what make of what you are hearing out of mubarak. i see a guy probably trying to slowly take himself off the stage. not entirely often stage is that going to quell any of this unrest? >> neil, it is not. the people of egypt have been clear about what they want. they want the removal of their president. they've been clear about a peaceful removal. i'd be careful picking up what egyptian television is reporting. part of that could be to quell those protesters out into the streets. the same egyptian tv saying the pipeline was an accident. when in...

Or to show off. we grab the cameras, dropped our inhibitions, in some cases our shirts, and finally flipped out over all this bad weather. maybe a semi-naked head dive into a four-foot oklahoma snowdrift is the best way to cope. or if the snow has you burning mad like these guys, why not just burn it? apparently if you throw down some matches, add some friction from the shovel, you've got flames. >> this is hot water. i'm going to throw it. it's going to turn into snow. >> reporter: today's treachery brought out the amateur scientists. >> that's how cold it is. we'll make it snow. >> reporter:...

Create total confusion. if one wants democratic evolution one has to permit a period of time in which a new constitution is created. in which a transitional government can be form -- can be formed. after the constitution is drawn up, then, elections could be held this is more or less what the secretary of state was proposing last weekend. but, since then there's so much attention based on will mubarak leave immediately? that is a secondary question