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>> but you're saying it's a level playing field. is it a level playing field? >> it's not a level playing field when the environmental organizations try to cut off nuclear without giving it a chance. >> the future of the world's energy needs. can it be met without increasing nuclear power, jim? >> well, we don't have any alternative now. maybe something will show up. but the time is running out. and what we need, and to make the cost competitive, is to have modular reactors, a given design which you then will produce many copies of. and it could be much cheaper than the current nuclear power p...

Okay, we are reducing pollution like this. and i'm saying wind prices going down, solar prices going down. investment going up. because those solutions are succeeding in the marketplace. and allow new nuclear technologies to come to the marketplace and say, i'm a cheaper solution. i'm a faster solution. >> you'll support nrdc nuclear? >> i think nrdc is better spent on emerging technologies that have market barriers to overcome not a technology that's been getting intense government support. >> michael friedlander, without nuclear power where do you see the state of the environment in 20, 30, ...

Exploration. the big beneficiaries of these will be saudi arabia, the venezuelans and opec. i'm allergic to the idea of subsidies, let's get rid of them. jenna: that was the question also in this. if we see for example solar energy prices go up or wind prices go up in the future are we going to take away the tax loophole for them? >> this is the problem i have with this. let's create a level playing field in energy and let the best technology win. if you look over the last 30 years we put more money into solar and wind energy subsidies than it cost to put a man on the moon. here we are 30 year...