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Giuliani's mouth like this money was funneled through the law firm and that an llc, a limited liability corporation, was set up with purposes of channelling that money. and then the repayment of that was done through these $35,000 retainer for no work types of payments, that does speak to willfullness. and i think one of the things for the prosecutors is to see how this was treated on the taxes of both cohen and the trump organization. was this income that was attributed to cohen? was it not? was it a loan? >> giuliani talked about the taxes. he said part of it last night was to help out with ...

The truth from coming out until the election had passed. and that is the sort of thing -- the law has a checkered history they tried to apply against john edwards and ended up with egg on their face. but there's reason to think this sort of tells a story of concerted action to really keep the truth from coming out. that could be a criminal offense. >> right. and may i add to that, don, and i agree with harry's analysis. and when you see words out of giuliani's mouth like this money was funneled through the law firm and that an llc, a limited liability corporation, was setup with purposes of ch...