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You can't catch anyone, there's no perry mason moment. why would mueller be relying on what are essentially very fancy written questions, interrogatories, with the president? a prelude to some higher pressure? >> you're 100% right. it's a prelude. he's got him in front of him, he's going to look at him, he's going to say these are inefficient. he's going tone ewe the grand jury subpoena to compel the president to come in and answer questions in the grand jury. he can stand up in front of a federal judge when it comes to it and say, judge, i've tried everything in the book to get straight answe...

Roll. would mueller's findings ever be released? >> has responsibility, mueller to, report only to rosenstein or the person acting in that particular position. the report is handed over to that person. if there's questions where to go from there, the indictments, grand jury subpoena issues, they're all centered around the ultimate clearance of rod rosenstein or lis figure. remember they have been criticized largely because they have acted mostly autonomously away from what the oversight should be perhaps of rod rosenstein. i think he has been under fire since the day he appointed robert muelle...

But there are a couple problems with that. the first is that now that there's this guilty plea, the mueller can pierce this joint defense agreement that mueller -- i'm sorry, that manafort had. and with trump. so if the president suggested anything about a pardon to manafort during the course of preparing their defenses, that's obstruction of justice. the president has wide exposure there. >> right. >> and the other thing is that today manafort admitted to many crimes that would also expose him to state prosecution. the president does not have the power to pardon anyone for a state crime. >> m...

The first is that now that there's this guilty plea, the mueller can pierce this joint defense agreement that mueller -- i'm sorry, that manafort had. and with trump. so if the president suggested anything about a pardon to manafort during the course of preparing their defenses, that's obstruction of justice. the president has wide exposure there. >> right. >> and the other thing is that today manafort admitted to many crimes that would also expose him to state prosecution. the president does not have the power to pardon anyone for a state crime. >> mimi. >> just on that timing question, we're...

Needs to know and we will have this hearing at 2:00 p.m. today to see what they will know in unsealing some of the transcripts. >> there you go. thanks for the reporting. paul callen is with me, our legal analyst. five hours plus, that was just one day. so many hours of this basically secret conversation between the two sides and the judge. it sounds like he will release this to the public. if it were not released, would mueller's team be privy to that? would they get it? is the only way they get it if the public gets it? >> they get it in the sense that one of their attorneys was there for th...