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>> why wouldn't he accept a pardon? who has not accepted a pardon? >> well, i was doubtful when he said it to me. he was in a great, stressful situation with a wife and two kids and looking at a prison sentence potentially. and he had lied for ten years and was expressing shame to me and i said are you willing to say that publicly? and you have a deep hole and you are a good man, and a good father but in order to win credibility which i see from the polls he has won, you need to be willing to tell the truth and all the truth and part of that is would you accept a pardon to get out of this fixt...

Had said, i'll give you some consideration, you may not have to spend the rest of your life in jail if you now tell the truth. if it was just about enriching himself, why wouldn't he then say, okay, i was trying to get more business, why wouldn't it be open? so it comes down to why he would lie a second time about this? and it goes to the more provocative theory, which is he's holding something back that implicates the president or maybe the campaign, and he's going to continue to hold that back because ultimately what he wants is a pardon. that's the only way he gets out of jail. and the real...

Petition patrice is a part of that demanding his release. about 200,000 virtual signatures and counting. in the bigger picture, there's a group called the black alliance for just immigration that puts out these numbers that show that, you know, in terms of black immigrants, black immigrants are about 5.4% of the unauthorized migrant population in the united states but made up 10.6% of all the removal proceedings between 2003 and 2015, you know, clearly he didn't want to become a face of this issue, but he kind of has. >> he absolutely has. it's shocking the disparity among black immigrants at ...

>> here's the thing. if howard schultz had a message he thought was going to resonate with a base, why wouldn't he really compete in the democratic primary which is where his values have always been aligned and clearly the party he's always been aligned with. i think it's real to say that we have an enemy in the white house right now to progressive values and the american people, to the future of our country. and those of us who believe very much that there should be a shift in leadership are trying to move that person aside and so i'm really curious as to why howard schultz doesn't see an opp...

[ indiscernible ] >> laura: i think if the chants were going the other way, it would be treated very differently. those kids were -- [ indiscernible ] . >> laura: one thing i have to bring up is the media angle of all of this. savannah guthrie, i don't know her, i'm sure she's a nice person. why on earth is there no desire it will find out anything more about the guy who decides to bang a drum a couple inches away from a kid's face? which i find a provocative space. it's his aura space, don't bang anything. you have the wouldn't like it scott and i wouldn't and michelle i know you wouldn't h...