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But it seems cut and dry. we know very well that it is a felony to lie to a federal agent, and that's one of the reasons that, well, that martha stewart went to prison, or general flynn pled guilty. so we have read accounts that he lied to investigators at the fbi. why wouldn't he be charged? >> well, i think that the expectation is that he will be charged. the problem facing mccabe is that the record that his own colleagues created. it was the inspector general's office that concluded he had lied. one of the key witnesses was james comey himself. in fact, mccabe's lawyer sort of went after co...

I don't read minds, i don't present dend to, if somebody says they're sorry i accept their apology. we got to get off the outrage freeway, and the left may never get off the outrage freeway. i want to get off it. and if we know where this is headed. if we forego language and debate we'll end up in a weird, violent, ugly place. donald trump's response, i understand it, because he always responds. also, it's his daughter. >> why wouldn't he. >> but the point is that, may have been the point f you think about this, if you think about it clearly, samantha bee knew she wasn't getting fired, she kne...

Say get that son of a [ bleep ] off the field right now. >> they call her pocahontas. >> so mary katherine, i was scratching my head this morning, thinking why wouldn't he just denounce at least the roseanne comment, but then you think of it full circle and he hasn't taken back any of those things he said, right, so why would he condemn someone else? >> i'm totally unsurprised that he's not taking that opportunity. also i'm not sure that i want like a nine day roseanne news cycle. we can all denounce her and move on, but this is who he is and it's one of the reasons that i talked about that be...

Andrew johnson opposed the 14th and 15th amendments. we should not put -- when we have a president who is not commensurate with the responsibilities, as president bush said last night, quoting churchhill at harvard, the price of greatness is responsibility, right now we have a president who is not up to that job. but what are we supposed to do, foal our tents? no. what we do is talk about it, we protest, we resist. we try to insist on a better path forward. >> let me bring you in, evan, on the sound we started off with before i put meacham on the spot about what we have left. john kelly saying...

Before i put meacham on the spot about what we have left. john kelly saying the president is embarrassed by the investigation, why would he be embarrassed or distracted by it? why wouldn't he be enthusiastic about an investigation that is going to get to the bottom of what the russian dz to impact our democracy? >> the president, to your point, is at legal and political risk due to his own actions which have inspired the investigation and caused the necessity of the investigation. i think kelly, kelly's comments sort of struck me as an effort to make the president appear as somehow a sympathet...