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To compel trump to testify. you think that can still happen? >> well, it theoretically could, all we know is what we are being told by trump's lawyers. that is obviously the source for the information. we are not getting it from the special council's office. and he may well decide in the end, i want to sit down and have a face to face with this man. and i don't want to settle for questions and answers and a written form. but we will have to see, we don't know. >> you say that nothing is going to happen until after the election. why do you think that? >> well, there's a, a norm that has long be...

They don't want him to sit down either. so i think it's very unlikely, and this is just a public stance, that he wants the public to think he's more than willing. and so it'd be because his lawyers don't think it's smart. >> so back in march the special counsel raised the possibility of using a special subpoena to compel trump to testify. do you think that could still happen? >> well, it theoretically could. all we know is what we're being told by trump's lawyers. that's obviously the source for this information. we're not getting it from the special counsel's office. and he may well decide in...

Mueller has up to a certain point, and then they can fight it out in court if it comes to that. they believe that doing it this way, you know, answering these questions in written form, will then put hem in a place where they can say, look, we've given you everything that we possibly can, and now you're crossing a line into executive privilege an interfering with the president's duties under article 2 of the constitution and let's fight it out. >> gloria, the president says no collusion. everybody says there's no collusion. the truth of the matter is we have no idea what robert mueller is goin...

Of this, and he's quite soberly overseeing this investigation. so that also to me undermines the truthfulness or, you know, accuracy of the "new york times" report here. but were they to fire rosenstein at this point would require them to have a new deputy attorney general appointed and confirmed by the senate. if he just fired him and left him vacant, then the solicitor general is the acting attorney general for the purposes of the mueller case, something he's not familiar with. and again, from the president's standpoint, you just do not want, i think, to change the director of this investiga...

Reinforce each other. it's not like we first heard this from bob woodward or the anonymous op-ed. all our sources and not just "the new york times" has been hearing this from the start. there was the earlier fire and fury book. that resonates with this as well. this is just a very strange time for america. and even those closest to the white house appear to be fully aware of that. and that is part of the unusual nature of the times we are living through. >> i want to ask you about the latest on bob mueller's investigation. we had the sentencing for george papadopoulos yesterday. he will spend ...