Aerial vehicles, and not only those. Who conduct surveillance, but also those who are able to strike in real time, this is in addition to aviation artillery, so now we see a whole series of videos where the hunt is on for almost every fighter, which is why this positional impasse, which has developed, yes, it is only aggravated by these technologies of attack unmanned aerial vehicles, which are extremely cheap, yes, so in my opinion, well, firstly , in principle you cannot act with anything other than small groups, any attempt on. Pizza leads to the fact that the enemy instantly strikes with artillery, and we also strike with aviation, and the worst thing is that this works in both directions, both for us and for them, so i dont really believe in anything that is not mythical, and the real ukrainian offensive, not only now, but even next spring, i have a question for you, you talked about the valdai forum, you talked before. I know, you know that on the frum there are now many, more representatives of developing countries, but the majority are members of the collective west, of course, it is very important to contact them so that they understand that moscow really has their interests in mind, and is not going to replace the hegemony of the west, for example, with the hegemony of russia, china, and it seems to me that the report that was prepared goes in this direction and, very successfully, certainly you know in in russia, the Expert Community is already interacting to a greater extent with expert centers, both in latin america and in africa in a number of asian countries, that is, the russian Expert Community is now more involved in how political thought is developing. And states, that is, we have already moved away from those approaches that were demonstrated with us earlier, when westerncentric thought was studied, political thought with the united states, as they say, at the center of this system, and i think that the study of this political thought in the countries of the global the south, this is very important for russia , since they demonstrate completely different approaches to posing problems and solving them, and this. Allows us to count on the fact that we will present our new vision of a new world order, which will, so to speak, operate in the near future. This is very important, and i have no doubt that this will be done well at the valdai forum, but i have my personal wish that the forum does not leave any doubts about the guests, uh, collectively. In the west, even if they dont hope that they can win in ukraine, that this will not happen, that russia will not allow this, and that russia has both the determination and the resources to prevent this, so that in no case will they think that russia talks so much about the desire to build a just world, because that russia cannot do anything else and is doing it from a position of weakness. And generosity usually works when those who listen to you understand that this generosity is not forced, but from the heart, and that , if necessary, you have other options, and you are on them for real, if necessary capable, it was a great game, well see you on the air tomorrow. Hello, this is a lab podcast, my name is dmitry bak, i am the host of a literary podcast, which has a wonderful name, let them not talk, let them read, today we will talk about how they read or write books about the past, books about history and my interlocutor today, doctor of historical sciences, professor vladimirovich medinsky, good evening, thank you for coming to us, and well, in the traditions of our program, i would like to start from the very beginning, well, maybe you can briefly tell me, how did it happen that in your youth you were fascinated by history, how it all began , well, to be honest, i was going to enter a military school, i come from a family of hereditary military men, specifically the school named after the supreme council, the highest command, but already. In the ninth grade they explained to me that due to my eyesight i was not suitable for a command school , only for some technical school, as long as i wanted to be a commander and my Favorite Book was mityaeva, a book of future commanders, yes, we know that one, yes, since childhood, then, well, i had to retrain as a civilian, and then there is an option, since my favorite subjects were literature and history at school, then accordingly i was preparing to enroll at the same time in the faculty of estimates, went to preparatory courses at Moscow University and mgemo, faculty of international journalism, yeah, why mgemo, because there are essentially two specialized specializations there, these are journalism and the history of international relations, and more attention is paid to history , whether things are quite similar or different, journalism international, the history of international relations, the history of the cpsu is included in this totality, i had it, three pairs every week. Yes, then the history of the ussr, the history of the east, the history of european countries, america, these are all separate subjects , slavic countries, yes, yes, imo, as a separate subject, uh, and then there is regional studies, that is, the history of the country of its first language, but in those years, in such universities as magimo, gites, exams were a month earlier than in all others, you could only enter one university, everyone failed, they calmly went with documents to another, normal university. To enroll, i had everything planned, i failed mgemo and after that i applied to the faculty of history, but i got in, thats why it worked out, here are four more exams we took for the balattestat, i can accept that on my own, a creative competition, four exams, and an interview, well , gradually, as i understand it, after all, for some period history, well, took up most of the show professionally, well, i cant say, but for example, when i had the honor of serving in the ministry of culture, too topics. Cultural heritage, history, culture is a comprehensive concept, so one way or another, this craving for history from childhood, it was realized, then i was assigned to create, correctly speaking, the Russian Military historical society, it is such a legal successor, one might say, the imperial, Imperial Military station in russia, since ancient times. When there were imperial societies, geographical, palestinian, yes, they have all been recreated today and are working successfully, tell me please, but still, history is a very wide field, as we see even from your professional fate, after all, for you , first of all, it is a continuation of a youthful romantic dream, or it is a strict academic profession, or. It is a means of persuasion , a means of communication, very different meanings are put into this word, well, first of all, i think we need to distinguish between two meanings, history is something significant that happened in the past, yes, or, simply significant, they say, it s happening around historical events, after all, what is history first and foremost for you . Well, everything that you listed, all of this is all there, a component of ideology, explaining something, starting from something, motivating, giving canons of behavior, and i am generally inclined to believe that history is not so much in modern conditions, conditions, understanding, science, all this is true, but in modern conditions history is not only the science of the past, but the science of the future, because it yes. Gives a very serious basis, these accumulated millennia of civilizational experience give basis for forecasting, history never repeats itself, but there are still some cycles, even, but it does not repeat itself verbatim, uhhuh, uhhuh, and since the situations that people find themselves in are somehow identical, and humanity is like us you and i know very well, here is a person , he has not changed in the last 3,000 years, well, as far as we can observe there , well, not at all, well, completely, completely, only technology changes, and technology, then, accordingly, the human reaction to those or others are similar, she is predictable, yes, she is predictable, accordingly, the better you know history, the more accurately you can predict , and what will happen after this, yeah, just by analogy, you know how, like judicial precedents in law, how you collected, how. Based on centuries of experience, these medicines help, but these dont, these herbs treat some symptoms, treat them, but these, therefore , History Today is already a science, it is not only the chronicle of humanity, it is not only records of the past, but it is also a forecast of the future, tell me, can we formulate it this way the better a person knows history, moreover, he is free from emotions, from hasty decisions, here is the conviction that this is all happening for the first time, well, for example, there was 1863, the polish riot, the skating rinks on the one hand, the westerners on the other hand, poland for our and your freedom, europe supports, well, its clear that this is a complete picture, of a much later time , so accurately, lets say, if not modern, it turns out that even the seventeenth year is not such an important milestone, if we remember that all this happened, does this provide an opportunity maintain some kind of sobriety, not become unconditionally on one of the sides, whether history gives academic sobriety, or is it sobriety of a different kind, history gives wisdom, yeah, and gives an understanding that we are not exclusive today, moreover, our ancestors, and the more i sometimes dive into the history of those or similar situations as we have, there are a lot of them, especially, i understand that our ancestors. In many ways, not owning iphones and fashionable programs, they were wiser than us, namely, they found simple, understandable, nontechnological, Human Solutions in certain difficult situations, and what they created was more durable, therefore, of course, well, any person who wants to adequately evaluate the present, of course, must know history, so. You said a wise thing that our ancestors managed without many gadgets, without many simplifications, databases, but they had to go everywhere on foot, i remember the phrase of theodor adorn, a philosopher and musicologist, who said that in order to enjoy music you need to get to where it is performed, that is , perform some difficult action, this is actually very wise thing, everything is there now its as if its too easy, and one might think that it never happened, but there history is like something unchangeable, well , positivist, lets say, yes, with an unchanged set of some truths, or after all, well, all the sayings are about the unpredictable past and so on, they are still true, a dry theory my friend, but the tree of life, for example, yes, we can talk about a positivist true history, or does it change as the person who looks at it changes, you know , i am into the concept of positivist or positive, they sometimes say story, im adding a few others. Yeah, history is not only a set of some sources, yes, sources that can open up to us in a new way, after all, we are not making many New Historical discoveries now, yes, but we can look at those in a new way or other accomplished facts and so on, with which a new view is associated, well, we always look at history, its like anal school, yes, we always look at history from the present, i just wanted you. yes from the present, yes we are interested , we are trying to find answers to questions of our time, even if we are not aware of this, but the question is different, the question is, will you look at the formidable, lord, that means there is geleati, history based on your todays ideas about good and evil . Then it will be there, well, basically everything will be terrible, terrible, everything terrible, well, how could it be, ivan stalin, so to speak, slept through the beginning of the war, thats where we dont look, or, you are still guided by the principle of historicism, you will strive. To look at history based on that time, that is, to separate yourself from research, not just to separate, to forget about yourself, to forget at all, to try to imagine yourself as an observer in that, in those ideas about morality and morality, in those ideas about legality, in those circumstances of the surrounding world of legislation, language, custom, and customs, and simply understanding of good and evil, they were completely different, i always say as a student that women. Century is always pregnant, i have such a marker, well, the statistics are simply such that whether she is an empress, whether she is pushkins wife, it doesnt matter just mendeleev, he the seventeenth child in the family, yes, here is alexander ii, how many children there were, this is already , this is already the second half of the 19th century, this is almost, almost modernity, eight, eight, thats all, and from this followed a different attitude towards children. Death occurred as a result of mechanical asphyxia, ordinary suicide, suicide, ordinary, unusual place, experts said that there are signs of forced entry on the lock in the uniconovo apartment, wow, you are investigating the death of a mannequin, books perished in half a square, there are from writers to diplomats, there is no existence in these games are Committee Games so that its impossible, but calm down, the criminal investigation department, you bastards . 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At bigfest you definitely choose a cheeseburger for 39 rubles and other offers at a very competitive price, only tasty and to the point. Roots, sound does not evaluate taste, but suggests according to taste. Anxiety can be treated. Novinkazon. Gradual release of the active substance. Just one tablet per day. Afabozole anxiety can and should be treated. So, i remind you that we have a lab podcast, im dmitry bak, the host of a literary podcast, let them not talk, let them read. And today i am talking with professor, doctor historical sciences, Vladimir Rostislavovich medinsky. Tell me, uh, modern. Technical surroundings, all these possibilities of confirming some events, it helps , brings it closer, to some extent yes, since there are modern technologies, history is becoming more and more a science located at the intersection with other sciences, well , there is radiocarbon analysis, i will talk about simple things, and dendrology is understandable to everyone, and age determination, dating by rings on trees, then the methodology. By the way, there are many interesting discoveries, when gerasimov restored the appearance of timur, unsuccessfully, well, lets take it, he restored the appearance of Fyodor Ushakov after the war, having examined his burial, in my opinion in temnikov, somewhere in the monastery where ushakov had lived for the last 10 years, it turned out that there was nothing in common about not a single sailor lost in the life of the ship , not a single captured sailor, his appearance has nothing in common with the canonical portraits after his death, he is much tougher and meaner. Well, so with bering, who was mistaken for his relative. We do not know, what suvorov looked like, he looks completely different in all the portraits. That is, its a pity that there is no photograph, roughly speaking, yes, here is academician gerasimov, well, actually, as you know very well, he even participated indirectly in the fate of our museum, because he recreated the appearance of Fyodor Mikhailovich dostoevskys mother mori fedna, and in as a result, the head was lost, an incredible story, absolutely, yes, lets not go into it, but look at the paradox, im convinced, if we allow it. That during the battle of waterloo there were some modern technologies, then one would appear, a thesis from one agency that such and such won, here is a video, confirmation, others won, here is a video, or there was no battle at all, or napoleon did not exist, well, an old soviet joke says that if i had a true newspaper, no one would know that i was defeated at waterlow, remember napoleon there, and if they had modern social networks and everything else, in principle it would be possible to win the war without a battle. Please tell me, but if we still talk about, well, such trends in history, in historiography in historical science, and which of them, well, developed in the 20th century, enjoy your sympathy, the question is not which trends are more accurate or fashionable, the question is what is the main thing, what is needed to think that, after all, history is still. A science that relies on artifacts, evidence, and various forms of sources and verification of these sources, but modern history in the era of Mass Communications is like with literature, you know, literature was literature , writer by writer, not yet the internet appeared and every blogger did not consider himself a writer , yes, especially since, so to speak, you pressed three buttons and you are already in mass distribution and not a single tyutchev, like a censor, can stop the stream of consciousness that rushes out of you, you know , and a huge circulation, but i never dreamed of circulation, i cant even dream of signing, yes, where does alexander sergevich go, so its the same with history , it means you read some nonsense on the internet , and now you already have secret knowledge, you begin to argue with professionals , you cant imagine, i recently gave a lecture about Emilyan Pugachev , well, it would seem 250 years have passed there, what a pugachev fan club was discovered, and it turns out that he is pyotr fedorovich, i didnt expect it, this is all romanovs falsification, he is. And there was tartaria, it turns out, these are thousands of comments, tartaria, and you are deceiving us, and the great tartaria led by the great, therefore , pugachev family, then there are a lot of options, where he came from, and how, yes, well, nosovsky and fomenko are immortal, well, any freshman the faculty of economics can only throw up its hands, it is impossible to argue with this, you see , the earth, as you know, elephants, elephants on a turtle and further down the list, this is. The problem is precisely this, the problem is that history textbooks are very important, i recently they asked, we are now working on new history textbooks for school, or updated ones, and i was recently asked how important it is in the internet era that there are textbooks at all, because everything can be learned on the internet, and you can even become a doctor, but not a surgeon, its clear but the diagnostician is easy, easy, yes, yes, the main thing is not to get to such a doctor, for an appointment, but, i say, you know, here. In our time of the internet, the importance of a School Textbook has increased a thousandfold, because it must be the truth, that guiding thread, holding on to which you will not drown in the sea of this fornication, from speculation, interpretation , dialogization, verified, reliable, what the overwhelming majority of the Scientific Community agrees with, at the moment, what a schoolchild should try to perceive as repeatedly verified information, it turns out that on the one hand there is strict historical knowledge, academic, if you like, based on work with facts, with sources, and so on, and there is this free spirit, which is inevitably shrouded in darkness or fog of arbitrary false interpretations, and on the other hand , the most Academic Knowledge is designed for a very narrow circle of people, can we say that the horizon of addressing, addressing such academic works, is quite narrow, well, thats why there are popularizers, popularizers who they present historical knowledge in normal human language, its understandable, with various kinds of comparisons with modern times, because when talking about some event, it is very important to give an example of what a person encounters today, says, look, then its easier to remember by analogy , well, you must have an iceberg in your head, an iceberg of preparing sources that do not need to be demonstrated, every good popularizer must be a very educated person, well, of course, otherwise it will turn out superficial, shallow, essentially, this is an important story, well, in general, an old question, according to the polarizer there should be such a great scientist, a classicist , endowed with degrees, or it could be such a professional popularizer, in physics, it seems to me, or in mathematics, very often like this, people who manage to convey certain things to a wide audience become very great scientists, academician kolmagrov, for example, mathematician of the century or hawking kapitsa, yes, today kovalchuk has a wonderful popularization program, yes mikhaila valentinovich, so no, it simply depends on the ability to speak. A person who is not immersed in the subject, he can float very easily, but in the humanities it is a little easier , because the circle of people who understand this matter is wider, and the number of popularizers of history, in my opinion, thank god, we have more than popularizers, in Nuclear Physics , its also very important to love the subject, its hard. Talk about something if you dont like it, if you dont like it, if you dont empathize with the hero, if you dont you live with them, the hero or the authenticity, after all, because lydia. Ginsburg, a great philologist , a student, said this, i remember this phrase, that not only a zoologist is not obliged to love ciliates, but even a botanist should not love flowers, well, a zoologist and a botanist should love what they want, a historian should love the heroes about whom he tells, because the principle of historicism, and only in this case it will be objective, the principle of historicism presupposes immersion in the dark, trying to live in those circumstances, think. Like that how they, to reflect, to empathize, as they are, without this there will be no reliability, without this there will be such a look down , but we know the posttruth, well, in fact, i propose in my books in my lectures there, just as much as possible, to try standing next to the people who created stories is a very important, important thing, well, oddly enough , i also do this in the history of literature, i say, well, imagine that dostoevsky. Published the novel poor people in the sixth year. Yes, its early, but still great, we say, the same text, absolutely the same letters, only the old spelling, but we know that this is the author of the crime, the punishment, we cant forget this, and take the karamazovs, in 46 they didnt know who this young man, the same text, but a completely different perception, we must turn it off, this is a very pleasant consonance, well, now i will traditionally, now turn to russian. Lyrics, in the middle of our releases, there is one of three actions, this is either a showing of an old book from my own library, or this is a quote from a classic, or a russian lyric, here now it will be russian poetry, i will read one of the poems of Georgy Ivanov, whom i rate very highly, i consider him a very great russian poet, but it has something to do with our topic, because leontiev and tyucheyev, Konstantin Nikolaevich leontiev, the famous thinker, philosopher, diplomat, monk, writer, well, tyutchev doesnt need to be introduced, and here in the middle there is such a hidden quote from the stranger blok, which then becomes a quoted quotation, the battle of thermopylae is mentioned, well, thats also in general a wellknown fact, this is the fifth century bc, 300 spartans, a Narrow Passage to mainland greece, where these 300 heroes died. Lets read this poem. The path under the fermopiles is clear on all four sides. And greece blooms with graves, as if there was no war. And we, leontya and tyucheva, are chaotic students. We have never known better than the idle life, the bush. We amuse ourselves with selfdeceptions; we are creative. Spring, having passed between sober drunks, she, a stranger, sits by the window, breathing perfume and mists, she sits by the window, a direct quote from the block, for her a distant country is visible across the seas and oceans, there are Christmas Trees, hiding a snowy prison, and blue komsomol girls are swimming in the crimea, they dive over the graves from one element, from the other the groom and leonidas under the fermopylas, of course, died because of them. This is an amazing poem because it first splits a single world. Yes, Georgy Ivanov from his migrant distance is observing this strange country, which seems to him like a prison, there are Christmas Trees there. Komsomol members dive into the crimea, these are very rich places where they were only the most noble people, imperial dachas, but suddenly, the ending suggests that russia is different. Yes, russia is one, so everything turns upside down, absolutely, the path under the thermopylae is clear, the history that has taken place removes the contradictions, and i would call this poem one of the examples of how in literature, historical methodology is also refracted and gives very important truths, no matter how it seems you are foreign or distant, some power, some country, if this is your homeland, if this is your native country, if this is just russia or england, for whom . 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From pain and inflammation. Pental extragel against pain and inflammation in muscles and joints. Well, from this platform, lets get back to our conversation again. Vladimirovich, lets now talk about the triple miracle that you describe in the preface, this book, lets demonstrate it, its called stories from russian history of the 16th century. Here. What do you mean when you talk about the three miracles that gave birth to this book . I quite randomly recorded a series of small lectures on the internet, popular about history, which i called stories from russian history, because this is not academic science, this is popularization, these lectures, unexpectedly, are a miracle number one sold out quite well on the internet, there were millions of views about it, after that the management of the culture channel approached me and offered to show them on culture, but usually it happens exactly the opposite, television is being filmed, something for television, then, well, from on the internet, they took an almost amateur program and showed it on Central Television , this is also a miracle, this is number two, it goes well and enjoys the attention of its audience, and then, in fact, miracle number three. Already a professional Publishing House said that you can write it all down and we will publish it as a book, i say, but it wont be one book, because there are a lot of lectures, it will be a series, thats what they said, and thats great. Yes, great, yes, thats why this is only the First Episode , there is more planned, a sequel will be released in a couple of weeks, these are literary lectures, the lectures are also unusual, because i speak without preparation, but i have a plan, i have a plan , numbers are everything, but starting a lecture, i dont know either its duration or how it will end, to be honest, often i dont even know what i will speak in the middle, because there is only a backbone on which it strings. Some thoughts, ideas, facts that pop up in the head, this is not reading from a monitor, this is a Television News format, yes, this turns out to be a conversation with the viewer, for me it was unexpected, because well , one would think that vladimirovich midinsky , well, presents some kind of concept, there is no, no concept, i have a concept, there is only one goal, i want, i tell. Yourself, i just want you to be interested, so that you may have some kind of desire to watch a movie on this topic or a monograph, well, suddenly, well, or at least sit down there, open the computer and learn something in more detail about our heroes, which is why, again, not i talk there about the conflict between productive forces, production relations, what we were taught, this is nothing. No, well, there is no theory of mentality, there are no people, people who made stories, this is a personified history, yes, just through them, this is not the history of the state russian, not russian people, as nikolai alekseevich polevoy had in contrast to karamzinov, yes, as we know, not karamzin, not his modern followers who write great ones, so to speak, i treat soberly about their own capabilities and temporary opportunities including, therefore, i am not trying to give this the format of any scientific or academic monograph, so there are no references to sources , because, well, why, this is not a scientific work, i am not polemicizing with any of the modern authors, although when if a professional a historian on the topic will read my books, he actually has nothing new except the authors view, that is, it is not for him, in fact , he will read the authors view, thats because, of course, some heroes are more attractive to me, i like potemkin there. When i wrote about the decembrists, this will be in the third volume, i was preparing a lecture, planning one lecture, i had one view on the decembrists, one story, that is, it changed right during the lecture, it turned out that i broke my leg for almost a month there sat at home, i had time, instead of one lecture about there were three decembrists, i read a lot of sources, and my view of them changed several times, how interesting it is, thats how it is , its such a. Phenomenon, these are such different people, and trying to judge them by just one tracing paper, like there in the soviet years they were heroes, a star of captivating happiness, in the presoviet years in the imperial years, they were state criminals, in the postsoviet years this is now a new fashionable topic, that these are such rebels, jacobinists, antistatists, god forbid, so to speak, such a maidan. On the one hand lenin is the first period of the liberation movement, who just did not understand that there is no dictatorship of the proletariat, in general everyone was right, good, they woke up, woke up herzen, it would be better, it would be better if he slept, but all these points of view, they are so, they make the world black and white, yeah, in fact, everything is much more complicated, everything must be taken into account , nevertheless, nevertheless, well, when scientists from the background approach this, i remember how in soviet times there was a debate about how to call it december. Its not clear what, that is, this is an important story, very interesting, very difficult, and how is always very contradictory in real history, and the history of the decembrists is